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Like the title says, I want to give Flats a chance again on my archtop. Its been a long time.
Currently Ive got Dadddarop EJ21 on my guitar 12-52
Im in the EU so a set of TI's are about 19 bucks for the swing version.
I can also get Pyramid Gold for the same price
Chromes are here too but a little more expensive
Here is my noobie question regarding string gauge.
I have read here that TI have less tension.
What I dont know is how this translates into the playing experience.
I dont find 12's an issue. Should I move to 13's (Ive no problem adjusting the truss rod if needed)
I
its not a huge issue. I have pretty good action. If I lower it from where it is I get a few small buzz spots that make me crazy.
I cant stand any buzz
Will 13's buzz less than 12's all things being equal
If so Im wondering if I can drop the action a hair with the 13 set?
Its sitting at about 1.6mm on the hi e, a little higher on the bass
Please advise and pardon me if some of these are dense questions.
Thanks gents!
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09-03-2025 12:18 PM
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Not dense questions at all. Just a few thoughts:
First, TIs and Pyramids are round core strings. Chromes are hex core which I have found to be very different in feel from round core and not desirable for me.
Second, I don't spend time thinking about tension figures from manufacturers. They might mean something, I suppose. But, like I said above, round core is what matters to me. There are only about three manufacturers that make flatwounds with round cores. TI and Pyramid are two of them. I also tune down a full step. I prefer that feel for string tension and also the lower note range of the guitar.
As far as action goes, I just set up and play. You may have to adjust higher with larger diameter strings, but it probably won't be noticeable.
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The String Guy on Pyramid Strings
This tension site isn't bad......
Throughout many discussions here about different brand names, string properties, etc, etc, I think it's safe to say:
1. That 1 & 2 strings - plain steel - are generic and don't differ much from one manufacturer to another....
2. The non TI sets always use heavier gauges for their 3 & 4 strings, as the chart linked here shows....
So, when you say increase a '12-52' setup to `13-56' in the non-TI manufacturers, their gauge thickness increases may be more constant, and noticeable, while TI's will remain thinner in the middle, even though you've kicked up the gauges a notch.
Put another way, the 12-52 Chromes-to-Pyramid setup change is even up, but a 12-52 Chromes to TI's probably will require some adjustment.
MHO and hope that helps.
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Actually with flatwounds the action can be a touch lower usually because they have no winding on outside to cause as much of an issue. Flatwound are great for recording and no finger noise of course but you don't have the extended pop and zing as rounds. One string that come close is D'addario half rounds that I like. It took me a few sets to decide I did actually like them. Now though if primarily playing the guitar acoustic I use Pyramid Monel they also have less noise that most rounds even though wound.
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I would definitely go up to the TI Jazz Swing 13-53 (JS113). I use D’Addario 12-52 roundwounds on some guitars and TI 13-53 flatwounds on others. Those two sets of strings seem to have about the same amount of tension to me.
Originally Posted by Sigmund451
Keith
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I use the 12-50 set of TI Jazz Swing set, but I swap the high E for a 13, and the B for a 17 - that's pretty much the perfect set of strings for my playing. I like the elixir branded plain strings, they seem to last longer and feel super smooth.
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dogal expressive jazz flats are the best
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A bold claim. I would try these and TI's based on the many recommendations here but LaBella is the only one making an extra light set that works for blues bending. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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Great topic. I have disliked flats for decades, but recently put Chromes .011s on my Tele and really like them. They've been on about a month, which is a record in 46 years. At least on that guitar- I haven't liked them on my archtops, although I've not tried them on my ES-175.
I have generally not liked TI strings for feel or sound, which might get me branded a heretic around here. I've tried Pyramid Golds, but they didn't last long before being swapped for roundwounds. I tried the GHS flats years ago and don't remember much about them. I vahuely recall they were thunky on my GB10.
I've never tried any Dogal strings. Juan, what makes their Expressive flats so good to you?
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Sound the best feel the best and last forever. Idk I’m bad at describing strings
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I have tried most of the available flats and I like TI's and Dogals the best.
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this Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
Ll.
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Thanks for all the help. This is a great forum.
I think I will grab the TI's, probably in a 13 but a 12 set with heavier unwound strings sounds like a great idea too. I will worry about fine tuning like that a bit later.
Im not willing to shell out 50 bucks for Dogal strings right now, especially since this is more of an experiment to decide if flats are the direction I want to go. They are made in the EU but they still want a substantial amount for them.
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I believe TI diameters are essentially the same as a regular set one gauge lower but with heavier unwounds. So the 13s basically feel like 12s but less wimpy up top! I really like that feeling and for roundwounds use Martin Lawrence Juber Monels, which basically are the same idea.
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Here are the differences between Chrome and TI-JS 12 and 13 sets:
I've tried all of those. For me, the sweet spot is the TI-JS 13 set. I find the overall feel to be lighter/softer than the Chrome 12 set, and the heavier high E and B sound better and fit my picking style better. I also find that I can do whole step bends on the TI wound G, but not really with the Chrome. Parenthetically, I'm fine with 10-46 sets on my semi and my solidbodies, but for some reason I find a 12 has too much give on my archtop.
Regarding differences in sound, when new Chromes sound somewhat brighter to me than TI's, but once they're broken in and have absorbed some schmutz, I don't really hear a difference. Like many others here, I do find that the TI's last longer, but I haven't really tracked it systematically and couldn't tell you exactly how much. For me the big reason I use TI 13's is the overall feel of the set. I've tried LaBella tapeworms and couldn't stand them, but I haven't tried other Dogal or any brands of Flats due to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
As others have noted, round cores feel more flexible than hex cores of the same gauge. So the combination of that plus the differences in the composition of the sets makes TI's mostly feel lighter than Chromes. There are also differences in how the gauges are actually measured that makes TI's of the "same" gauge lighter than Chromes, as discussed in this thread:
Manufacturers' string tension charts
Concerning effect on action, if you switch to a string set with lower overall tension, in theory that would reduce neck relief and lower the action in roughly the 4th-12th frets. That could in theory mean more fret buzz. But in practice, it might not make any difference. It really depends on the guitar and how sensitive to differences in tension the neck is.
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I used to think the round core felt more flexible, but If your order Chromes in like gauges to TI, I find they are actually less tense. (supported by tension charts and feel, just by a bit) The nickel is warmer and more complex. The stainless a bit more jangley. The chromes out last the TI's by quite a lot for me. Could be body chemistry who knows, but as much as I like the TI's they just don't last to justify the cost for me.
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GHS precision flats feel pretty low tension to me. Rotosound Top Tape feel like the most tension.
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Get more guitars, then you can have different type strings on each guitar?
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Having multiple copies of the same one will let you appreciate string differences in an unbiased way
Ll.
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Just an update and thanks for the assist from the community.
I finally put on the Thomastic Swing 13's
I do think I like them. I dont miss string noise.
The Thomastic 13's really dont feel significanlty heavier than the Daddario 12s (roundwould)
I do like the reduction in twang on the small strings.
Im almost curious what a 14 would sound like on the first string. (might be out of ballance)
I had them last week but I was waiting for a compensating bridge top.
I probably would not have noticed the intionation issues before but after years of working with woodwinds it made me a little nuts.
The intonation is much better now
Since I was yanking off strings and working I also recrowned my frets and got rid of a few little buzzes.
Ive now got the action down to about .050 (1.4 mm)
Maybe Im crazy but does anyone else sometimes feel like the low e in roundwounds sometimes sounds out of tune even if the tuner says its spot on?
Perhaps its the overones...or my old terrble hearing. I guess I could have gotten a dud string but it just didnt sound right (regardless of bridge placement).
The flatwould 6th intionates perfectly by the tuner and sounds right.
I did notice that the needle on the tuner does not wonder around nearly as much on a static note.
Curious.
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Yes, but it depends on the tuner. It seems like any tuner I use that clamps onto the headstock is fooled that the low E string is in tune when it is not. My 40-year-old Seiko quartz tuner seems to be more accurate in this regard. Indeed, it's the most accurate tuner I've ever used. Originally Posted by Sigmund451
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the truth is spoken. Once you try them, I predict you Never Go back and more importantly, you will Never think about strings Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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Yes, roundwounds produce a more complex sine wave, to my hearing that is, one has to adjust to it - I don't own an electronic tuner. Originally Posted by Sigmund451
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The compensating bridge helped quite a bit with pulling the fretboard together as well as the low e weridness (which might be my damaged hearing as well)
As for the Dongal string suggestion...neither my guitar or my playing can justify 50 euros for a set of strings.
The TIs in the EU are actually one of the more affordable sets of Flatwounds.
Im pretty happy with them so far.
Im also happy that I made the move up from 12's to 13's
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Don't want to derail this thread, but, Originally Posted by AllAboutMusic
I'm intrigued, I've searched far and wide and can't find one example online on Dogal flats (except a few on solid bodies 60's surf style music).Those that preach their virtues, can you direct me to examples of players that use them?
Thx
S
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