Gibson L-4C setup/strings advice

[Bill C]

Hi everyone

I’ve recently been lucky enough to buy a 50’s L-4C - ie no pickups, same dimensions and laminate build as a 175 but with a spruce top. It’s in many respects a lovely guitar, but having played the guitar for a while, I’m not getting the dynamic response to picking attack I’m looking for. In contrast, I have a Steve Toon Maccaferri which with its longer scale can be a more challenging guitar to play but is *very* responsive to picking dynamics. The L-4C came strung with TI Plectrum 10’s, which I’ve changed to the same strings but 11’s. I’m thinking about going to 12’s, but wondering whether to stay with the TI’s or switch to different strings. The guitar sounds rather “delicate” and I’m looking for a more traditional jazzy and dynamic acoustic sound. On the other hand the Plectrums are apparently designed for more fragile older guitars, so I don’t want to collapse the top with something too heavy!

any ideas greatly appreciated

thanks - Bill

[pawlowski6132]

Any bronze acoustic strings in 12s will work fine.

Jumping between manufacturers will probably yield extremely minimal differences unless you have two guitars that sre exactly the same and you put new strings on them at the same time you might be able to hear a difference.

I went wild at strings by mail and I've probably gone through at least 20 plus different kind of bronze strings. They all sounded pretty much the same.

For what it's worth, I landed on these mostly because I liked that I could get 13 on top but smaller gauge G-E string.

Traditional 13s
Gauges: .013 .017 .026 .035 .045 .056

These:
Gauges: .013 .017 .024 .032 .042 .055

John Pearse 310NM 80/20 Bronze Acoustic Guitar Strings New Med 13-55

I just ran out of those and am trying a couple sets of these:

Curt Mangan Round Core 80/20 Bronze Acoustic Guitar Strings, Trad. Light 12-53

I heard round core might be less tension?

[skykomishone]

I'd love to see some pictures of your new old guitar. As far as strings, unless there is some major defect in the guitar, 12's or 13's should work fine. Have you surveyed the bracing to make sure things are tight? How high or low are the strings from the frets? These are a few measures to help understand the guitar better. Do you know how to set up an archtop? It changes with string gage and type. I like nickle strings, and you'll get 100 different suggestions on this.
TI 's are great, I think. I've tried bronze on acoustics and rarely like them, except on my Martin OM.
Congratulations on the new guitar. It takes a while to figure what each guitar and you need to find the zone of optimum.
Sometimes it's easier than others.

[deacon Mark]

The guitar should easily take 12-54 gauge strings but I would use Thomastik strings 13-53. A Gibson L4 could be a loud guitar but probably is more even sounding and generally they are nice sounding from the 50's. It is a very different guitar a Maccaferri in all respects. Sometimes those with not as much experience might find arcthops work differently. To the player they might seem not a loud but listening out in front of the guitar it is much different experience.

Any flattop or the Maccaferri will take the sound and disperse it in a much broad fashion right out the box. This is due to the whole aspect of how the top vibrates. You strum and the bridge is the anchor moving up and down the top. On an archtop the anchor is the tailpiece forcing pressure on the top then moving the top, as well as throwing the sound out in a much more point fashion to a spot much farther out than a flattop.

Good experiment is to take a flattop and good acoustic archtop to a large room like a gym or big dance hall. I use the Church because it is convenient. Have someone play both guitars and stand back 30 feet or even more. Go to the other side of the Church ( in my case.) I have done this and I can assure you my Hollenbeck could be heard quite noticeable more than a Martin 000 that was used for the test. In fact the Hollenbeck cut it to pieces both in rhythm and single line by far.

Getting a guitar like this does takes a bit of time to get things to what you like. Strings are the heart of it now and also the setup. As far as a dynamic response I am unsure what you might expect. A good archtop is usually made so that it is relatively even all across the fingerboard and playing. Jazz players play all over the neck and therefore you don't want the guitar losing volume as you move up the neck. Certainly the dynamics of how you play have much to do with your sound. I would think based on the Maccaferri sound that it would be more dynamic. Those guitars are made to be quite loud and percussive. A lot snap when playing rhythm given the Gypsy Style. They are fine guitars but to my ears not the best sound for chord melody for instance. The attack required does not suit intricate chord melody quite as well.

Could be ultimately you might what a big old 18 inch sound generator. Size is not everything but it is a 16 inch guitar. Listen to Jonathon Stout and see maybe that is the sound you like II have not idea.

[Dean_G]

Martin Monel Retro 12s are nice punchy strings. Not bronze but Monel steel. Or 13s. Heavier strings of any kind should give you more dynamic range. The Macaferri is a whole different animal. I wouldn't worry too much about the L4 top collapsing. Provided the braces are intact, arch tops were made for heavier strings, and being an older Gibson it should be sturdy.

[ThatRhythmMan]

The L-4C is not typically an especially loud archtop in my experience. I’ve only personally come across one that could really stand much of a chance of hanging in there with a 16” non-cut Gibson or Epiphone (or D’Angelico), and then only against average ones.

They are usually nice acoustic guitars nonetheless with good tonal qualities. I think there are generally going to be some sacrifices in sound pressure that can be generated by a 16” guitar with a Florentine cutaway. Heavier strings should help some though and as others have said, it should be built to handle them. You could try raising the action a bit also, as long as it’s still comfortable to play. If the action is too low, say set up more like an electric, it can really choke the volume of an acoustic guitar.


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[ThatRhythmMan]

Also, keep in mind that TI Plectrum strings have a silk layer and because of this they tend to be a somewhat softer sounding string and not as traditional bronze strings.


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[jaymen]

For sure ditch the 10s, they are too light to get that L4's carved top moving.
Try good old Martin Marquis (silk wrapped on the ball end) acoustic 80/20 Phosphor Bronze, light gauge (.012")
to get a solid tone from the L4

Double check the tightness of the screws and bushing nuts on the tuners, because if they are loose, there goes your volume and tone. Also be sure the tail piece screws are secure. Also, it may still have that plastic nut they used in 1950s, and if so, have a bone nut fitted, it improves the tone.
Keep in mind that the L4, with a 16 inch body and acoustic round wound strings is going to sound more like Maybell Carter playing Wildwood Weed than Charlie Christian playing Jazz through an amp on his ES 150.

You can however approximate the post war jazz sounds by picking close to, or over the end of the fingerboard,
and if you want a smoother sound try a set of TI Swing series flatwounds. I like to use the .011s because anything bigger than that makes bends pretty difficult. If you have vise grip hands, or do not do much bending, maybe .012" will be better and give you more tone.

My 1954 Gibson L-50 is essentially built to the same size, specification, and with the same woods as your L4, but lacks a cutaway. I like the tone the best with the Martin string set and gauge mentioned at the top of my post.

PS: Have someone else play it and stand 10 feet in front of them and listen, you will be surprized! With archtops, the sound projects straight out and as a player, you can't hear it as well as flat top, round sound hole guitar. Also archies have more initial volume, but lack the sustain of a flat top. The flip side is they do not get boomy when played hard and tend to project better/ cut through the mix.

[Bill C]

Thanks all for your thoughts and advice on strings and setup, and good points about different types of guitar - much appreciated!

[Woody Sound]

Definitely move up to (at least) 12's. The short scale will like them.

[pawlowski6132]

So, i find two different answers online to the question of the back and sides material of the L4C. Does year matter. Some sources say it's laminate and some say carved.

I have a '52 and to my untrained eye, it looks like it might be laminate.

Chuck??

[jaymen]

No seam down the middle of the back equals a veneer/laminate.

[pawlowski6132]

No seam down the middle of the back equals a veneer/laminate.

Ahh. Of course.

Sneaky.

[Bill C]

So, i find two different answers online to the question of the back and sides material of the L4C. Does year matter. Some sources say it's laminate and some say carved.

I have a '52 and to my untrained eye, it looks like it might be laminate.

Chuck??

My understanding is that the acoustic L-4C is the same construction as a 175 except with a spruce top, so back and sides = laminate.

[ThatRhythmMan]

My understanding is that the acoustic L-4C is the same construction as a 175 except with a spruce top, so back and sides = laminate.

To the best of my knowledge this is correct. I think the L-4C always had a laminated back. That’s not true of the older L-4s. They had solid, carved backs.


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[jaymen]

look inside the body and see if there is a seam in the middle of the back running from the neck to the end block, of so it's a solid back, if no, its laminated. I think the L-4 was solid in the pre-war years, not sure the exact date they changed.