Another Johnny Smith Pickup Thread

**Sigmund451** · 07-31-2025, 10:30 AM

I've dug through the old threads and gleaned some great suggestions.
Here is my imagined dilemma.

I have a Great old ES 125 with the p-90 pickup that I love...no problem

I also have an Aria Pro 2 FA71 with a cutaway. Its been gone through techs at least once or twice so it actually plays pretty darned well.
The previous owner dropped in an Armstrong Slimbucker/Johnny Smith neck style pickup.

It works fine but I really dont love the tone of this guitar in comparison to the ES125 (yes...right...little comparison)
Its possible that I need to spend more time with the amp settings

BUT, I wonder if it can be better with a better pickup?

The slimbucker is one of the machine made korean models I belive, not the handwound version.

I dont want to cut the top. I dont really want to invest too heavily in having a pro redo the whole shooting match.

What I have found is that the Lollar JS model is too narrow by a considerable margin. The mounting hardware doesnt look too easy to bend so its probably going to be a hassle to fit this guitar.

The Armstrong hand wound will fit
The Bartolini will fit.
A 12 pole Armstrong PAF will fit but it has to be custom ordered

Its kind of an expensive mod for a cheap guitar but at this junction the fretwork is good, the action is good.
While I prefer the more compact scale of a gibson its comfortable to play

My question is do you think there is a significant reason to upgrade from the KA Slimbucker?
Is there much bang for the buck?

If so which pickup?

In a perfect world that doesnt exist Id probably drop a P-90 in it if they existed in this type of a mount
Someone needs to overcome physics and make it possible

Thanks all!

**Cunamara** · 07-31-2025, 07:15 PM

FWIW, the Korean KA pickups are wound by hand by a Korean guy trained by Kent, using Kent's recipes, from the same parts (Kent gets his pickup components from his Korean counterpart). The Korean winder does not do "air coil" pickups embedded in epoxy, those are done by Kent in Vermont and his son Aaron in England, but all the "normal" pickups are functionally and tonally the same per Kent's repeated public statements.

That said, Kent's "air coil" epoxy pickups are highly regarded. If you like the P90ish kind of sound, he makes an epoxy air coil floating pickup that will provide either the P90 sound or the Dearmond 1100 Rhythm Chief sound (even better, both with the addition of a switch). It's a great pickup.

Kent Armstrong Floating Single Coil (Handmade) - DjangoBooks.com

**JazzNote** · 07-31-2025, 07:21 PM

Kent also makes (custom order) versions of his JS PU which have a third outgoing wire, taping just a single of the two coils.

**sgcim** · 07-31-2025, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Cunamara

FWIW, the Korean KA pickups are wound by hand by a Korean guy trained by Kent, using Kent's recipes, from the same parts (Kent gets his pickup components from his Korean counterpart). The Korean winder does not do "air coil" pickups embedded in epoxy, those are done by Kent in Vermont and his son Aaron in England, but all the "normal" pickups are functionally and tonally the same per Kent's repeated public statements.

That said, Kent's "air coil" epoxy pickups are highly regarded. If you like the P90ish kind of sound, he makes an epoxy air coil floating pickup that will provide either the P90 sound or the Dearmond 1100 Rhythm Chief sound (even better, both with the addition of a switch). It's a great pickup.

Kent Armstrong Floating Single Coil (Handmade) - DjangoBooks.com

So Roger Borys gave me Kent Armstrong's number in Vermont, and I got the guy with the British accent. Does that mean that RB lied to me twice, or did Kent develop a British accent from talking to Jimmy Page too much?

**Sigmund451** · 08-01-2025, 04:37 AM

Thanks gentlemen,

Im seriously looking at the floating pickguard mount Armstrong single coil
I think I would use that more than a tapped humbucker.
Lately every guitar I really want to keep playing is not a humbucker.
It may partly be my old ears and the fact that one of them is nearly deaf.
Or, my taste may have changed

**garybaldy** · 08-01-2025, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by Sigmund451

I've dug through the old threads and gleaned some great suggestions.
Here is my imagined dilemma.

I have a Great old ES 125 with the p-90 pickup that I love...no problem

I also have an Aria Pro 2 FA71 with a cutaway. Its been gone through techs at least once or twice so it actually plays pretty darned well.
The previous owner dropped in an Armstrong Slimbucker/Johnny Smith neck style pickup.

It works fine but I really dont love the tone of this guitar in comparison to the ES125 (yes...right...little comparison)
Its possible that I need to spend more time with the amp settings

BUT, I wonder if it can be better with a better pickup?

The slimbucker is one of the machine made korean models I belive, not the handwound version.

I dont want to cut the top. I dont really want to invest too heavily in having a pro redo the whole shooting match.

What I have found is that the Lollar JS model is too narrow by a considerable margin. The mounting hardware doesnt look too easy to bend so its probably going to be a hassle to fit this guitar.

The Armstrong hand wound will fit
The Bartolini will fit.
A 12 pole Armstrong PAF will fit but it has to be custom ordered

Its kind of an expensive mod for a cheap guitar but at this junction the fretwork is good, the action is good.
While I prefer the more compact scale of a gibson its comfortable to play

My question is do you think there is a significant reason to upgrade from the KA Slimbucker?
Is there much bang for the buck?

If so which pickup?

In a perfect world that doesnt exist Id probably drop a P-90 in it if they existed in this type of a mount
Someone needs to overcome physics and make it possible

Thanks all!

I wonder why the previous owner took out the original pickup. Are they considered inferior? I'm wondering now if Jim Mullen changed the pickup on his FA71. I'm happy with the pickup in mine.

**Cunamara** · 08-01-2025, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by sgcim

So Roger Borys gave me Kent Armstrong's number in Vermont, and I got the guy with the British accent. Does that mean that RB lied to me twice, or did Kent develop a British accent from talking to Jimmy Page too much?

No, that would've been Kent's son Aaron. Aaron grew up in England and has a British accent. He runs Kent Armstrong Pickups in England and builds them as well as his dad does.

Partway through the interview, they are discussing the Johnny Smith pickup. Kent's indication is that he didn't think it sounded very good because it was essentially only 80% of a humbucker (in terms of coils of wire) and due to the smaller magnetic aperture. Personally, I've heard a number of guitars with that pickup that I thought sounded wonderful, so of course this is a matter of taste. Kent's handwound 12 pole PAF is thin enough to be able to fit a full horizontal dimension humbucker into the vertical space of the JS pickup.

**Sigmund451** · 08-02-2025, 12:52 PM

Thank you all again

I have to admit that the cheaper KA sounded just fine in the guitar.
There is essentially nothing wrong with it.
I just cant seem to get excited about any guitar I play with a humbucker at the moment.
I can listen to people all day playing them but I seem to be wanting something different
I wasnt so much looking for the Johnny Smith sound (hahah...I wish)
I was focused more on the mount.

I decided Id go the pickguard mount route instead and ordered the KA single coil P-90ish pickup
Hopefully that will take care of my gear issues.
Ive no illusion of being a great or even good guitarist but I can enjoy it.

**Cunamara** · 08-02-2025, 05:39 PM

Enjoying guitar is my main intent. Becoming "great" is probably off the books at this point, being that I've studied jazz 45 years and I'm not there yet. Doesn't matter, my aim is to enjoy playing first and foremost.

The single coil is a great pickup. Even better if you wire it up to be able to take advantage of both its available sounds.

**Sigmund451** · 08-03-2025, 07:23 AM

Yes, I ordered a toggle to use the tapped lead on the pickup.
Ive no idea how much I will use it but I may as well take advantage of it being there.

The nice thing about this guitar is that I dont have to worry about spoiling an uber valuable instrument by making it non original.

Its just a guitar. Hopefully when Im done a nicer one but its no vintage Gibson.

**Cunamara** · 08-03-2025, 11:02 PM

Good luck with that and let us know how it turns out! I really like the DeArmond Rhythm Chief sound a la Johnny Smith in the early 1950s.

I also really like the P90 sound come to think of it, I've never played an archtop with P90s. I should try one sometime. I have used a floating CC style pickup on one of my archtops which I really liked, except I live in an old house with crappy wiring that I'm not paying to have redone. Too much noise.

This pickup gives the option for both which I find really interesting.

**jaymen** · 08-12-2025, 05:09 PM

Have you tried playing that guitar through something like a Fender Princeton Reverb, or Deluxe reverb?
If not, go and try that first, as you will be amazed.

**Sigmund451** · 08-13-2025, 09:48 AM

I thought Id come back and give the results.
I got one of the single coil floating P90 Armstrong pickups.

First I took my first stab at leveling and crowning the fretborad. It was uneven and the action was too high.
Ive got to chase down a couple of really small buzzes around the 15th fret on the e string.
If I knew players here that new a good luthier I would have gone to him but Ive had guys work on my stuff that just didnt care enough.
I figured as long as I didnt get crazy with the sandpaper I could only jack it up so bad.
Im used to working on instruments but not strings so Im accoustomed to fiddly things

At the 12th I can suqeeze in .050 feeler and still touch the string so its nice and low.
If I cant fix the buzz I dont mind raising the bridge just a little.

I put 12's on the guitar and its just super easy to play. I might move to 13's next time but Im pretty content with this.

I really like the pickup. Its closer in tone to my es125 but its got a cutaway however, its still a bit different.

I guess Im a single coil guy.
It could be my old age and loss of most of my hearing in one ear but humbuckers dont do it for me. I enjoy and perhaps need the added separation of tones from single coils..at least thats my reasoning today. Regardless of rationale,I like them and thats really all that matters.

**Cunamara** · 08-13-2025, 01:57 PM

Glad it is working out for you!

I am prone to liking the single coil sound (as if there is only one). My favorite guitar sound that I am getting currently is with my Telecaster neck pickup, which is a Bill Lawrence Micro Coil. All of my archtop guitars currently have humbuckers, but I used to use a floating Charlie Christian style pickup on my carved archtop and liked the sound of that, but the noise unfortunately drove me nuts (I live in a very old house with some dodgy wiring, and a number of the venues I played in didn't have clean power either).

There is some compression and phase cancellation in a humbucker pickup compared to a singlecoil, which to me makes the singlecoil sound seem "wider" and "deeper."