Advice on Modding Epiphone Casino?

[Palehorseo]

Hi folks, looking for a bit of wisdom before I do something irreversible.

I have an early 2000s Korean Epiphone Casino, I believe from the Peerless factory. It’s great, plays really nicely, people I play with complement the tone. It’s also very light. But it’s very very trebly for my taste and I’m struggling to get the warmth I want even with tone rolled off etc.

I had this idea of doing a poor man’s Emily Remler with it and get my luthier to replace the P90s with humbuckers (Probably SD ‘59 or Seth Lovers). I like Emily’s tone on the 330 with HBs, and this is similar, right? Would obviously need a bit of work to make mounts for the pickups and possibly some routing. I’d probably stick a Bigsby on while I’m at it because I like them.

Is the switch to Humbuckers likely to get me the warmer tone I’m after? Or am I just pumping money in and tanking the resale value?

The alternative I suppose would be to sell the Casino and save up for an Eastman Romeo or a 335 or something.

Any and all opinions welcome…

[Jimmy Mack]

I hope this helps.
Seth LOvers and SD 59's are bright pickups. I know, I have some.
It's hard to believe that you can't roll down the tone with your dials, guitar or amp. They must be very bright p/ups.

The conventional wisdom and replies you'll get here is: try everything you can before you take tools to a nice instrument!

I have Gibson P90's in my Casino (MIC) and the tonal range is just great for jazz too. You may consider changing p/ups, or a lower value of Volume pot, 250K ohms or even lower. I don't know what you have presently.

[Gitterbug]

I can get quite a dark tone from my Casino Coupe, but prefer a mix of the two PUs for a more "fruity", acoustic sound.

[Palehorseo]

Thanks Jimmy Mack, genuinely helpful.

I’m increasingly confused about what ‘vintage’ tone means. I assumed it meant dark, low output, with a bit of a mid hump. But I’ve heard a few places that classic humbuckers are bright or a bit scooped.

The Casino right now to me sounds clear and bright with great note separation, but a little thin, for want of a better word.

The tones I most enjoy would be something like Kreisberg on Night Songs, or sometimes Rotem Sivan with his Howard Roberts. But for physical reasons I can’t play an archtop. (And yes I know it’s about the player but sometimes it’s fun to think about gear).

[Doug B]

Have you tried using the Casino through a graphic eq like a Boss GE7? It would let you change your tone several different ways and as a bonus you would not have to cut up a nice guitar!

Doug

[Palehorseo]

I can get quite a dark tone from my Casino Coupe, but prefer a mix of the two PUs for a more "fruity", acoustic sound.

The two pickups blended sound fantastic but it’s not the warmth I have in my head

[LesB3]

I had an early 2000's MIK Casino that was also very bright, the tone knobs were of little help.

I now have a USA Casino that has the Gibson P-90's in it, and I can get darker tones with the neck and even with both pickups (which is hum cancelling).
I'd look at putting Gibson P-90's / better wiring in there before I try to swap to HB's, but with the cost you are incurring, you might be most of the way to a used Epi 335 anyway?

[58flame]

EQ will fix that, because you want to remove treble. You can remove treble, but you cannot add it if it isn’t there. Try an EQ before you rip anything out.

[jads57]

Another consideration is trying a different pair of P 90’s along with replacing the cheaper electronic components such as pots and capacitors,etc.

[jamesego]

Do you mind sharing what you play through? Maybe there are some amp or interface tweaks that may get you closer to the sound you’re hearing

[Mark Fowler]

Another consideration is trying a different pair of P 90’s along with replacing the cheaper electronic components such as pots and capacitors,etc.

And maybe first just verify that the existing pots and caps have the appropriate values. Maybe a previous owner switched the pot and/or cap values and that might be a simple fix. If the pot and cap values are correct, then consider changing to a different P90 pickup.

[Palehorseo]

Do you mind sharing what you play through? Maybe there are some amp or interface tweaks that may get you closer to the sound you’re hearing

I play straight into a DV Mark Little Jazz. I usually bump the kids just a little and set reverb at 4. It sounds great with my tele.

[Palehorseo]

I had an early 2000's MIK Casino that was also very bright, the tone knobs were of little help.

I now have a USA Casino that has the Gibson P-90's in it, and I can get darker tones with the neck and even with both pickups (which is hum cancelling).
I'd look at putting Gibson P-90's / better wiring in there before I try to swap to HB's, but with the cost you are incurring, you might be most of the way to a used Epi 335 anyway?

Thank you, this makes me feel like I might not be crazy. Yeah Im wondering about selling it towards an Epi 335 or maybe an Eastman. Especially now this thread has persuaded me not to mutilate my guitar.

[sgosnell]

Putting the reverb on 4 on a Little Jazz should give a pretty bright tone. I can't stand to put the reverb on mine above ~2, but for me if I can easily tell that there is reverb, it's too much. Your taste is not mine, of course. I wouldn't be too worried about hurting resale value on one of those guitars, because it's not much even in mint condition. There is no shortage of them. The tone controls on a LJ are, IME, very effective, and I seldom turn any of them more than maybe 1/6 of a turn in either direction, but again it's taste and preference.

[lesyeuxnoirs]

I would try different P90s before thinking about humbuckers

The Gibson ones with Alnico 3 magnets are lovely, as are Bare Knuckle Half Notes

[John A.]

I agree with advice about trying other P90s (or maybe P90-sized humbuckers). The stock Gibson P90s in my Les Paul are definitely not overly bright.

[orri]

Isn't this exactly what you are looking for without the need for routing: Seymour Duncan Dog Ear P90 | Seymour Duncan

[Stringswinger]

I had a Gibson 330 that sounded great for jazz. IMO, those who have advised different pickups and pots have given you the answer. Cutting up your guitar for humbuckers is simply a bad move. If you want a humbucker equipped guitar, sell the Casino and buy one.

[stevo58]

I had a Casino that I modded in every possible way. I bought it expressly for that purpose. Pickups, pots, switch, jack, tailpiece, bridge, bridge ferrules, nut, tuners. I thinned down the thick plastic coating, completely removing it from the neck.

The only thing that made a large difference was replacing the too-hot pickups with Fralins. I believe the newer models have more reasonable pickups, though. Oh, the tuners were a big step up, too.

All the rest (regarding tone) had minor effects which may or may not have been wishful thinking. I had fun doing it though. When I decided to attack the whatever-it-is finish I met my match. All the stuff is now on a 330-style body from Bian.

[andyb]

You might find this interesting?

https://youtu.be/ubwr6Owqp_E?si=KIUtZuKNoTmkKKRb

[Palehorseo]

I had a Casino that I modded in every possible way. I bought it expressly for that purpose. Pickups, pots, switch, jack, tailpiece, bridge, bridge ferrules, nut, tuners. I thinned down the thick plastic coating, completely removing it from the neck.

The only thing that made a large difference was replacing the too-hot pickups with Fralins. I believe the newer models have more reasonable pickups, though. Oh, the tuners were a big step up, too.

All the rest (regarding tone) had minor effects which may or may not have been wishful thinking. I had fun doing it though. When I decided to attack the whatever-it-is finish I met my match. All the stuff is now on a 330-style body from Bian.

thanks - were there any issues fitting the new pickup? I’ve heard Casino body is a weird shape/curbe that can cause problems

[Jimmy Mack]

Regarding Epiphone 335's as an option, here is one that I almost bought as an upgrade/backup to an already great Epiphone 335 Pro that I own and still enjoy stock. I was waiting to pay for it at my GC when I spotted a Gibson 335 marked down but still 3x the $$ for the Epi!

I really liked this one (and it has Gibson USA p/ups)

Epiphone Epiphone ES-335 Figured With Gibson USA Pickups Semi-Hollow Electric Guitar Cherry | Guitar Center

[stevo58]

thanks - were there any issues fitting the new pickup? I’ve heard Casino body is a weird shape/curbe that can cause problems

The problem is the neck pickup. Lollar has some info:

Lollar Pickups: Dogear and Casino Model Page

I think the Casino neck has a different string width - 48 mm maybe? But I bought the Fralin set shown in the photo and it was just fine. I find they are very fine sounding pickups. Very versatile.

[Palehorseo]

Thanks for the replies everyone. The hivemind has spoken and I will not be messing with this guitar. I’ll play it for a while but right now leaning towards selling it and getting one of the new nice Epiphone 335s

[omphalopsychos]

Dogear-PAF – Curtis Novak Classic PickupsDogear-PAF – Curtis Novak Classic Pickups