Yes, an original Princeton sounds better. (The tune's for you, 'moon.)

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

With all the talk here of late about vintage vs reissue vs clone Princetons, I started to wonder how my '76 would sound to me after using (and raving about) my Blu, BAM200/Toobs, and Quilter on so many gigs. I do practice through either the Princeton or the Twin from time to time. But I haven't paid much attention to the sound and haven't taken a tube amp out of the house for many moons. With the arrival of my El Rey, I'm preparing a For Sale post for my Raines Tele 7 and making video and audio clips to show what it can do through a variety of amps, including the Princeton.

So there's my perfect Princeton all warmed up and sitting next to the El Rey. I got curious as to how great that combination would sound, so I made this track while drinking my coffee just now. I have to admit that the real Princeton really does sound better than any other amp I have (and probably better than any other amp I've ever had). It may not be a barn burner, but at reasonable volumes it sounds sooooo sweet, rich, and musical. It also lets the character of the guitar come through clearly. The El Rey has a nice traditional, slightly woody tone that's balanced from top to bottom, and the PR really lets it shine.

Wintermoon, I hope this is a more Hank-worthy rendition of This I Dig of You:

[GuyBoden]

Very nice, excellent playing as usual.

Just my humble opinion, but you can hear small tube amps slightly break up when playing chords.

My preference would be:

1.) Tube amp for single notes.

2.) Solid state amp for chords.

[wintermoon]

pour moi? I'm flattered!
but I thought for all you do, this Bud's for you
love
Lou Rawls
p.s. being form Philly Hank shoulda named it This I Dig Of Youze

[Llewlyn]

Your playing and tone are lovely

Ll.

[Cunamara]

If he was from Pittsburgh, it could've been "This I Dig Of Yinz."

[Tal_175]

That sounds very good. Nice playing. I have a handwired, custom 64 Princeton. Though in a blind test I don't think it would be possible to differentiate among handwired, reissue and original Princeton's if they all have the same speaker.

[Jimmy Mack]

Tal_175, that would be an interesting cork sniff, And I would love to partake. You may be right. I have a 70's - 60's mongrel that I love, it's like a favorite pet.
I am happy with the Emi Legend spkr. in it Had a Scumback 10/40 something in it for 10 minutes, and it just destroyed the tone of this great amp.

What speaker are you using?

[Freddels]

That sounds very good. Nice playing. I have a handwired, custom 64 Princeton. Though in a blind test I don't think it would be possible to differentiate among handwired, reissue and original Princeton's if they all have the same speaker.

There will be slight differences and I'm not one to say I could tell them apart. However, in 25 or 50 years, a point-to-point amp can most likely be fixed if something isn't working.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

That sounds very good. Nice playing. I have a handwired, custom 64 Princeton. Though in a blind test I don't think it would be possible to differentiate among handwired, reissue and original Princeton's if they all have the same speaker.

Thanks so much!

I must politely disagree about the differences among the original, the hand wired custom shop, and the production PR. I have years of experience with 3 original PRs of my own. I gigged with a HW custom shop PR twice a week for 7 years. I've also played through many production PRRIs. I agree that there's no significant difference at bedroom volumes. But on any gig louder than a small restaurant date, the differences emerge. At the amp's sweet spot (i.e. just at the verge of breakup on chords), I think the originals have more weight to their tones than the HW custom shop PRs and it's mostly missing from the production PRRIs. And when you really push it on blues and fusion, the production PRRI loses its chime and clarity. I've played through them with a variety of speakers from stock to way upscale. The better the speaker, the more clear it is that the difference is in the amp.

My HW Custom PR was at a club in which I played twice a week from 2017 until the end of 2024. My jazz trio played Thursdays and my blues band played on Sundays. So I got to use it with many of my guitars and pickups, including a HW KA set HB, a Benedetto B7, SD HBs, Lace Alumitones, a Duncan Quarter Pounder, an active EMG, a KA floater, and Carvin HBs. These were in carved and laminated archtops (16" and 17"), a Les Paul, a Carvin hardtail, an ESP hardtail, a Kubicki Express, and a Raines Tele. The pickups and guitars didn't matter. At and above the volume sweet spot, the HW custom shop PR was more compressed and less alive than my original '67 SF (the one I restored, still have, and will take to the grave because it was Jazzkritter's). To my ear, the production PRRI has a less well defined verge of breakup than the originals or the custom shop PR - and the breakup is not as smooth and creamy. This has also been true regardless of the brand of tube used. My '76 has Tube Depot generics in it and sounds as good as or better than any other I've heard.

Several players brought their own PRRIs over the years, and we compared them to the CS PR. The same observations held true each and every time regardless of the tubes or speaker in the reissue. I don't know if it's the power supply (which Fender says is the same in the CS and original models), the overall component quality, the output transformer (also said by Fender to be identical to the original), the wiring, the cabinet, or something else. But I'm pretty sure I can tell them apart on higher voume gigs. I'd love to be able to try a blindfold test on a gig. I wouldn't be horribly surprised to learn that I was wrong about this, but from my experience to date I believe I'm correct.

[Campbell_jazz]

Interesting and insightful comments.

Are modern boutique builds, like Vintage Sound, Headstrong, et al., closer to the vintage Fenders or the hand wired Fenders?

[Fear the Reaper]

+1

Interesting and insightful comments.

Are modern boutique builds, like Vintage Sound, Headstrong, et al., closer to the vintage Fenders or the hand wired Fenders?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Are modern boutique builds, like Vintage Sound, Headstrong, et al., closer to the vintage Fenders or the hand wired Fenders?

I don’t know. I’ve never owned one and have only played through a handful. I’ve played through a few Victorias (both big and small) and think they’re at least as great as the best Fenders I’ve had or heard. The build quality is excellent and they’re very responsive to touch & technique.

I spent a few days with a friend’s ChocoPrince, which is Lil Dawg’s 6g2 (1962 brown model between tweed & BF) Princeton clone. It had a 12” Creamback and upgraded components from the factory (eg big Mercury transformers and upgraded PS). It was built well, although not quite as beautifully as the Victorias were. It was a very nice amp for blues, but it just didn’t excite me. Here’s what I said about it in a post comparing it to my Princeton:

“The Choco Prince has a bit softer attack although it's quite clean up to its breakup point (which is suprisingly high). It does not have the scooped midrange that characterizes the blackface and later Fenders. It's a nice tight little amp that does everything well from thunk to fusion, but its bass is not as full as the Princeton's. It's surprisingly loud for a 15W "student" amp, and it's fairly bright with the neo Creamback.”

I was surprised that with the overbuilt PS, beefy OT, and 12” Creamback, it disappointed me for jazz and didn’t do justice to any of my archtops. Of course, that’s just one example of one builder’s work.

You really have to try an amp under fire to know what it’ll do. Playing one tune through it (even on stage) won’t let you find its strengths and weaknesses or reveal its true character. Some are so responsive to their controls that a minor change in setting makes you fall in love. Others are lovable regardless of settings. I’d love to try more boutique builds, but the chances to do that are few and far between.