Help me choose an affordable Jazz guitar for my recording studio.

[jazzdig]

I’m looking at getting either a hollow body or semi hollow body guitar for recording Jazz guitar at my studio. This guitar will probably be strung with flatwound strings but I’m still undecided on whether to got with Humbuckers or P90’s.

I have been looking around on the pre owned market and so far I have these on my shortlist for something that is affordable and within my current budget:

Guild Starfire SF-1 (SC or DC)
Ibanez Artcore AF75
Epiphone Casino
Epiphone Dot
Epiphone ES-335

This guitar will primarily be for my clients to use at the studio should they choose to do so. Most clients that would benefit from a Jazz guitar will no doubt have invested in their own and have it set up to their exact preference but I do occasionally have a guitarist in the studio, that may not be a jazz guitarist as such, but will be going for that kind of thing on a particular track that we are recording and it's likely that their guitar and the others that I currently have available at the studio won't be suitable so it would be nice to have an appropriate guitar at hand that we can use in such instances.

In addition to this, when I am recording a jazz guitarist (that will no doubt have brought their own guitar with them to the session) it would be nice to have another suitable guitar at hand in the studio that we could perhaps use for the occasional overdub or guitar part on certain tracks, should we require a slight variation on tone to that of their own guitar.

With this in mind, I’m not looking at spending a great deal of money on a guitar that will only be getting occasional use, but I do want something that I can rely on to play well, record well, and provide a sufficient Jazz guitar sound with appropriate tone – with a leaning more towards a vintage sound.

Guitar amps that I have available at the studio which often get used in the recording of Jazz guitar, and will therefore be used in conjunction with this guitar, include a selection of vintage Fenders (Champ, Deluxe Reverb, Dual Showman Reverb), Music Man 212HD and a Mesa Boogie Mark III.

Any opinions on the guitars that I have listed above or any alternatives that you feel I should consider would be very much appreciated.

[buduranus2]

Best bang for the buck is (are?) Ibanez AF series jazz boxes. You get 80% of the performance of a Gibson for 20% of the price. Here's a pic of my (since replaced) AF-75. Paid about $200 for the guitar, put in a pair of Seymour Duncan Seth Lovers ($345 installed) installed a set of TI Bensons and swapped out some other parts. After selling them off I was into it about $575. They actually sound not at all bad stock. My two cents FWIW.

[AllanAllen]

This guitar will primarily be for my clients to use at the studio should they choose to do so.

based on this I would get the Ibanez, not a thinline.

To the uninformed a thinline is a Clapton or BB King guitar.

The Ibanez also cover rockabilly twang.

[jazzdig]

Best bang for the buck is (are?) Ibanez AF series jazz boxes. You get 80% of the performance of a Gibson for 20% of the price. Here's a pic of my (since replaced) AF-75. Paid about $200 for the guitar, put in a pair of Seymour Duncan Seth Lovers ($345 installed) installed a set of TI Bensons and swapped out some other parts. After selling them off I was into it about $575. They actually sound not at all bad stock. My two cents FWIW.

based on this I would get the Ibanez, not a thinline.

To the uninformed a thinline is a Clapton or BB King guitar.

The Ibanez also cover rockabilly twang.

Has there ever been any Ibanez AF series that have come stock with P90s? Just curious to know if there is an option for that or if these guitars can only be found with humbuckers (unless modified or swapped out with P90 'style' pickups).

[Skip Ellis]

Telecaster would probably do it - just because it's not hollow doesn't mean you can't play jazz on it.....Bill Frisell, Ed Bickert, Julian Lage seem to agree

[jazzdig]

Telecaster would probably do it - just because it's not hollow doesn't mean you can't play jazz on it.....Bill Frisell, Ed Bickert, Julian Lage seem to agree

Yeah, no doubt. In the right hands it's certainly possible to use a Telecaster for Jazz, there's no disputing that. However, I already have a Fender Telecaster here at the studio and it's not uncommon for clients to walk in with one of those so I'm just looking to add a different colour crayon to the box so-to-speak and something that can be a go to Jazz guitar for when its called upon.

[Jimmy Mack]

I know that one can play jazz on anything, but the OP is looking for something with that hollow body sound. I've had Strats and Tele's. There is no hollow body tone to them, especially side by side with semi's or hollow guitars.

Out of the list above, I have a Casino, and a Starfire III, both hollow thinlines and either one is a good sounding hollow body, so much so that they can (almost) satisfy my urge to play my L5.

[213Cobra]

Pricier, but makes a strong brand impression for your studio. And P90s!

Just a moment...

Phil

[reventlov]

Casino, P90s

[Strat-itis]

P90s

If it's his studio guitar he wants hum cancellation. Humbs.

[supersoul]

If it's his studio guitar he wants hum cancellation. Humbs.

counter argument: single coils sound fundamentally different than humbuckers, and I think single coils often record better; more sparkle, less mud.
I mostly record with single coils, and I can reduce hum/buzz a lot by changing the direction that the guitar is facing. There's always a direction where the hum almost goes away.
Live, on a bandstand, humbuckers might be more practical, but the OP said is was for overdubs of a different flavor.

My vote is for the Epiphone Casino with P90s. They're often overlooked because they appear to just be a 335 semihollow, but when you pick it up it's much different, and that can be inspiring.

[gvurrdon]

How about one of these?

Hollow Body :: G2420 Streamliner™ Hollow Body with Chromatic II, Laurel Fingerboard, Broad'Tron™ BT-3S Pickups, Village Amber

The price is reasonable, and it has coil splitting on the pickups.

[John A.]

I’m not sure the premise of having a cheap studio guitar makes sense. I don’t see that being very appealing to many clients. OTOH, if you’re known for having something more interesting on hand in the studio, that would give your studio more appeal. If you don’t have the funds to budget for something better, I suggest saving for a while.

Also, I think humbuckers are a better idea for this application than single coils. I have guitars with SC pickups (p90 and Fender) and love the way they sound, but it can be a challenge to record them because of the noise. I don’t think it makes sense to introduce that risk to a session on top of the risk of handing an unfamiliar guitar to a player.

TL;DR; Save up for a higher end semi hollow or archtop that has a little bit more of the “ooh, that’s a cool guitar” factor.

[SierraTango]

How about one of these?

Hollow Body :: G2420 Streamliner™ Hollow Body with Chromatic II, Laurel Fingerboard, Broad'Tron™ BT-3S Pickups, Village Amber

The price is reasonable, and it has coil splitting on the pickups.

I have a Gretsch 2420. It's a great guitar at the price point around $499 retail, although I paid $98 for mine with some trade-ins at GC. It's a little heavy, however the fit and finish is outstanding, I believe they are made in Indonesia. It's got a very comfy neck profile and plays very well with accurate intonation. Yes, it does have the coil splitting feature via a push/pull knob on the cutaway horn area.
I haven't done any recording with it, I purchased it to do a Western Swing project a friend was doing for live performance. There were three shows, I plugged into my Evans JE200 and got excellent tone. It will do smoky jazz on the neck pickup no problem.
There is a crazy segment of players out there that don't accept Gretsch guitars as "jazz" guitars, however tell that to Sal Salvador, Mary Osborne and Freddie Green to name a few.

Also on your list I didn't see any Eastman guitars, and they can be really excellent however a little higher on price. I gig with a 05 Pisano 880 and it was my primary working guitar until I replaced it as my #1 with my Benedetto Cremona.

[bluejaybill]

based on this I would get the Ibanez, not a thinline.

To the uninformed a thinline is a Clapton or BB King guitar.

The Ibanez also cover rockabilly twang.

I agree, but I believe there are many who can't handle an archtop, having always played solids.

I think that's a possible flaw in the OP's premise. Not every guitarist can just pickup (pun intended) another guitar, especially an arch top, and produce studio quality results. Most (me included) develop that skill by having a bunch of different guitars.

[ewall]

A second vote for Eastman. Almost any hollow or semi-hollow model.

[Jimmy Mack]

I agree, but I believe there are many who can't handle an archtop, having always played solids.

I think that's a possible flaw in the OP's premise. Not every guitarist can just pickup (pun intended) another guitar, especially an arch top, and produce studio quality results. Most (me included) develop that skill by having a bunch of different guitars.

This is an extremely important factor. Thank you for bringing it up.
Much as I love my L5, for example, I don't just pick it up willy-nilly and get on with it! It's a different kind of animal. Rewarding as it is, it requires a bit of work/skill and determination, (not for everybody).

[John A.]

I think the idea that some people can’t handle an archtop is kind of silly. It’s a guitar. Guitarists play guitars.

[Sleeko]

Guild Savoy X-150 may do the trick. A nice used one, your choice of origin. Mine is a Corona California version. Pickups may vary but a nice sized, comfortable guitar to play.

[jazzdig]

Many thanks for all of your posts, comments and suggestions so far, really appreciated.

There has been some great feedback on some of those guitars that feature on the shortlist in my original post and other great suggestions for me to consider such as the hollow and semi-hollow Eastman models which I will definitely be bearing in mind and keeping an eye out for.

As mentioned in my original post, I’m still undecided on whether to got with Humbucker or P90 pickups. I do like the tone of P90's but as others have touched upon in this thread, these pickups are notorious for their hum, which obviously isn't ideal for recording situations. However, over the years I have recorded numerous P90 loaded guitars that clients have brought in to the studio and usually, in an appropriate environment that is free of excessive RF noise, with the player not too near the amp, and with appropriate positioning and orientation of the guitar, the hum is manageable and good quality recordings are achievable (though admittedly more challenging with quieter songs with minimal instrumentation and a sparse arrangement). But yeah, P90's can be a PITA which is why I'm still sitting on the fence with this, as although I do love what they bring to the table tone-wise, Humbuckers are a joy to record and guarantee a nice clean recording with minimal hassle. Obviously, there are the noiseless/hum cancelling P90's on the market but in my experience and opinion, they don't quite cut it. Although they succeed in reducing or cancelling hum there seems to be a trade off and compromise to the tone but I would be interested to hear of other peoples opinion and experience with these .

Another factor that I'm having to consider is if to choose a full bodied or slimline guitar. Am I correct in thinking that guitars with a full body tend to be of a hollow design and the slimline guitars of semi-hollow design due to the center block? If this is the case, being as this guitar will be for recording purposes, I feel that a full hollow body should provide a deeper tone and possibly project a little more acoustically which would provide more tonal options when recording, especially when using multiple microphones for recording the amp, the guitar itself and the room. I would be keen to hear of other people's opinions and experiences in recording both types of guitar design (though I fully appreciate that there is always far more at play here in terms of the wood, construction, bracing, strings, pick thickness, the player and the acoustics of the recording space etc).

[bluejaybill]

I think the idea that some people can’t handle an archtop is kind of silly. It’s a guitar. Guitarists play guitars.

I know many good guitarists who couldn't pick up an unfamiliar guitar. especially a fat arch top, and produce recording session level music. Not silly at all, unless you are assuming that everyone who walks in his studio has that ability. Just as one example, how about someone who is not used to a longer scale? That's pretty common.

If he's looking for an arch top, then most likely he is not looking for someone to come in and play cowboy chords. I would make ease of playability one of the most important features.

[rpjazzguitar]

I believe the 330 is fully hollow, but slim.

The 335 has a block. From what I've read there's more than one way of implementing a block.

I have two semis, both with blocks and they don't sound anything close to alike.

[Christian Miller]

I'd get the Casino, quite honestly. I love those things for jazz.

String it with some nice fat jazz strings and you have a pocket 175.

[John A.]

I know many good guitarists who couldn't pick up an unfamiliar guitar. especially a fat arch top, and produce recording session level music. Not silly at all, unless you are assuming that everyone who walks in his studio has that ability. Just as one example, how about someone who is not used to a longer scale? That's pretty common.

If he's looking for an arch top, then most likely he is not looking for someone to come in and play cowboy chords. I would make ease of playability one of the most important features.

Sure, anyone has to take a bit of time to adjust to an unfamiliar guitar and/or set-up. But the idea that an archtop is some sort of qualitatively more difficult adjustment? Sorry, I can’t take that seriously.

[Christian Miller]

NB I think any of those would do the gig.