Gibson "Hi Fi" Flatwound Strings

[Iced Tea]

For a while now I've been curious to know more about the original Gibson "Hi Fi" flatwound strings, particularly after a couple of players who are very much interested in vintage gear recommended them. I did some research on this and made some interesting findings, and in the end I bought an NOS set in light gauge (the 040L set). Hope this is of interest.


From what I've gathered, they were first introduced around 1957 and could have been made both in-house at Kalamazoo or through outsourced manufacture, and interestingly through a German manufacturer, possibly Pyramid, as the early packaging was marked either "Made in USA" or "Made in Germany". They were very expensive for their time, retailing for around $8 a set, and they were also sold in boxes of single strings, possibly to allow players to replace individual strings as one went dead, rather than replacing an entire set.


The construction of these strings seemed to be very consistent up until the Norlin era when the supplier or spec changed, but this is not certain. They only came in two gauges, a light gauge - 040L - consisting of:


.011 (plain)
.015 (plain)
.021W (wound)
.028 (wound)
.037 (wound)
.051 (wound)


and a medium set - 040 - consisting of:


.014 (plain)
.018 (plain)
.025W (wound)
.035 (wound)
.045 (wound)
.058 (wound)


I bought an 040L light gauge set on Reverb, these were in the later packaging from the late '60s. When they arrived I replaced the Thomastik Swing 13 gauge set that I had and strung up the guitar. The NOS set I managed to find were in sealed plastic packets and there was no tarnish and the strings looked like new.


In terms of construction, what stood out was that the strings seemed to be made out of a round steel core, with either a nickel-plated steel or stainless steel double wrap. The ribbons do not go all the way to the end, and the layering at the ends appears slightly irregular, possibly due to the use of manual or semi-automated winding, very old school. The strings appear to be hand polished, or another low tech process and had a slightly irregular ribbon and polish, not like the very smooth, even modern flatwounds we know today. They were wrapped with orange silk at the ball ends. Interestingly the core diameters are listed on the string packets, the The G and D strings are both .013 round core, and the A and E strings are both .015, which seems like quite a thin core, meaning more of the string wrap is coming through, so more fundamental and less overtones.


In terms of sound and feel, I must say that these are some of the nicest strings I've used. They have a number of characteristics that are different from modern strings, and I really like them. They have an openness and sizzle to the higher frequencies and are very supple due to the round core. They are also very high output and I had to wind the pole pieces down on the P-90 pickup to dial in a good tone. The low strings have a quick decay and thump to them, and overall they just have that vintage sound from recordings. They do feel like they will probably expire fairly quickly. I doubt they are as long lasting as Thomastik flatwounds, but for now I must say I prefer them, with the rougher, grainier sound as opposed to the smooth fundamental tone of the Thomastik strings.

Some other thoughts. I've seen some comments across forums that the quality of these strings was very variable and some did not intonate well or were just dead out of the packet. Luckily that wasn't the case with the set I found. Also, these were the light gauge, and the regular 040 set is supposed to be very thick and feels very stiff, so may not be as usable. Another observation is that no manufacturer currently makes strings to the same specifications as far as I can tell. The only two makers manufacturing flatwound round core strings are Pyramid and Thomastik, however these are both pure nickel not nickel-plated steel or stainless steel. Newtone Strings Archtop range seems to be the closest with the double-wrap construction, thin core and materials, but they do not do a true flatwound string at present.

Here's some pictures to illustrate.


Early packaging marked "Made in Germany":



Double wrap construction



Silk wrapped ball end



The 040L set from Reverb packaging

[Doctor Jeff]

Wow—you’re gonna party like it’s 1957! Perfect for playing Stella by Starlight.

Speaking of which—Jim Hall’s debut album was in 1957. The cover shows him with his 175–wonder if he used these strings??

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Wow—you’re gonna party like it’s 1957! Perfect for playing Stella by Starlight.

Speaking of which—Jim Hall’s debut album was in 1957. The cover shows him with his 175–wonder if he used these strings??

They were pretty popular in the late ‘50s and early ‘60s. My local dealer even stocked them in the small town in which I grew up. I used the “light” set on my first electric Gibson, a very well used early 345TD-SV that I got in ‘60. I used the regular set on the less used 175 for which I traded the 345 some months later, until I switched to Guild EA610 flats when my dealer got them (in ‘63 IIRC).

I still remember how much smoother the Guild strings felt to me compared to the Gibsons. They also sounded a bit more even and less bright. But I went from a 15” Pro to an Ampeg B15N at about the same time, which negated a direct comparison of string tone. The 175 was my only guitar (and the B15 my only amp) for almost a decade, so I played it acoustically a lot. But I don’t remember a significant difference in acoustic volume. True, it was a long time ago - but I definitely remember how much more I liked the Guild strings than the Gibsons. I was heartbroken when the Guilds disappeared.

[Woody Sound]

Oh wow, memories. I used to have lots these packs lying around back in the day. Can't really remember why or when I stopped getting them.

[kawa]

My favolite !!!

1gibson 040l - Google Search

[Iced Tea]

They were pretty popular in the late ‘50s and early ‘60s. My local dealer even stocked them in the small town in which I grew up. I used the “light” set on my first electric Gibson, a very well used early 345TD-SV that I got in ‘60. I used the regular set on the less used 175 for which I traded the 345 some months later, until I switched to Guild EA610 flats when my dealer got them (in ‘63 IIRC).

I still remember how much smoother the Guild strings felt to me compared to the Gibsons. They also sounded a bit more even and less bright. But I went from a 15” Pro to an Ampeg B15N at about the same time, which negated a direct comparison of string tone. The 175 was my only guitar (and the B15 my only amp) for almost a decade, so I played it acoustically a lot. But I don’t remember a significant difference in acoustic volume. True, it was a long time ago - but I definitely remember how much more I liked the Guild strings than the Gibsons. I was heartbroken when the Guilds disappeared.

That must have been some sound! Are there are any modern strings that are similar to either the Guild or Gibson strings do you think?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

That must have been some sound! Are there are any modern strings that are similar to either the Guild or Gibson strings do you think?

To tell you the truth, I was so excited to have a 175 and a great jazz amp while still in high school that I was far from objective - every single note was heavenly to me. But by the time I got through college with the same rig, I can more confidently say that it was definitely fantastic

In thinking about it, Guild flats probably disappeared before Chromes came along (which was in the late '70s IIRC). I tried other brands and stuck with LaBella flats until Chromes came along. I tried and liked Chromes although they felt a little stiffer than the EA610s, and I used them for many years. I'd wanted to try TIs for a long time, but the cost put me off compared to Chromes. When a big sale came along during Covid, I tried a set of JS flats and absolutely loved them. And to my surprise, they lasted an amazingly long time. I decided maybe I should replace them after a year, thinking that I might not have noticed a slow deterioration in tone or mechanical properties over so long. I posted a before and after review of the original set and the brand new set with which I replaced them, along with level matched sound clips of the same tune on each played as closely as I could. I couldn't tell a consistent difference between them and half of the forum members who responded to the poll thought the old strings were the new ones, so it's clear that I didn't need to replace them yet.

Ever since then, I've been using JS113s on my carved archtops and think the sound and feel are very similar to the Guilds as best I can remember now - it's been at least 55 years since I last played a set of Guild strings. But I also tried a set of heavy Benson TIs (14-55) on my laminated 16" archtop when they came up on a great sale, and they really woke it up compared to the JS113s I'd been using on it. I now use GB114s on that guitar and absolutely love the sound and feel. Even better, the current set have been on it for over a year and are still excellent. I do replace the unwound pair every few months. But that's only because I bend a fair amount even playing jazz on an archtop, and I don't want a broken string in the middle of a gig. When I had only that 175, I played 4 or 5 gigs a week from jazz to blues to rock to weddings on it, so the strings got a serious workout and one broke every once in a while. That hasn't happened to me in many years, both because I change the unwound strings a few times a year and because I have 3 solid body 7s for blues etc.

So I think TI Jazz Swings are the equal of those old Guilds and even a bit better than the original Gibson HiFis or Sonomatics. The 13-53 JS113s seem to be the best match for both my 16" and 17" carved achtops, and the GB114s seem to excite the heavy, thick laminated top on my Ibanez AF207 like no other string I've tried on it in the 28 years I've had it. There are several other excellent flatwound strings out there - Dogal, LaBella, Pyramid etc. I haven't tried the current versions of any of them, and many on this forum love each one. So you need to try them unless you've found strings that thrill you on your own guiitars. I have.

[skjazz]

FWIW, guitarist Ed Cherry told me that Dogal flat wounds from Italy reminded him the most of these Gibsons from a modern manufacturer. I've played them ever since.

[sgosnell]

The Nilstain designation would seem to indicate that they're stainless steel wrapped, if my long-unused German doesn't fail me.

[Iced Tea]

To tell you the truth, I was so excited to have a 175 and a great jazz amp while still in high school that I was far from objective - every single note was heavenly to me. But by the time I got through college with the same rig, I can more confidently say that it was definitely fantastic

In thinking about it, Guild flats probably disappeared before Chromes came along (which was in the late '70s IIRC). I tried other brands and stuck with LaBella flats until Chromes came along. I tried and liked Chromes although they felt a little stiffer than the EA610s, and I used them for many years. I'd wanted to try TIs for a long time, but the cost put me off compared to Chromes. When a big sale came along during Covid, I tried a set of JS flats and absolutely loved them. And to my surprise, they lasted an amazingly long time. I decided maybe I should replace them after a year, thinking that I might not have noticed a slow deterioration in tone or mechanical properties over so long. I posted a before and after review of the original set and the brand new set with which I replaced them, along with level matched sound clips of the same tune on each played as closely as I could. I couldn't tell a consistent difference between them and half of the forum members who responded to the poll thought the old strings were the new ones, so it's clear that I didn't need to replace them yet.

Ever since then, I've been using JS113s on my carved archtops and think the sound and feel are very similar to the Guilds as best I can remember now - it's been at least 55 years since I last played a set of Guild strings. But I also tried a set of heavy Benson TIs (14-55) on my laminated 16" archtop when they came up on a great sale, and they really woke it up compared to the JS113s I'd been using on it. I now use GB114s on that guitar and absolutely love the sound and feel. Even better, the current set have been on it for over a year and are still excellent. I do replace the unwound pair every few months. But that's only because I bend a fair amount even playing jazz on an archtop, and I don't want a broken string in the middle of a gig. When I had only that 175, I played 4 or 5 gigs a week from jazz to blues to rock to weddings on it, so the strings got a serious workout and one broke every once in a while. That hasn't happened to me in many years, both because I change the unwound strings a few times a year and because I have 3 solid body 7s for blues etc.

So I think TI Jazz Swings are the equal of those old Guilds and even a bit better than the original Gibson HiFis or Sonomatics. The 13-53 JS113s seem to be the best match for both my 16" and 17" carved achtops, and the GB114s seem to excite the heavy, thick laminated top on my Ibanez AF207 like no other string I've tried on it in the 28 years I've had it. There are several other excellent flatwound strings out there - Dogal, LaBella, Pyramid etc. I haven't tried the current versions of any of them, and many on this forum love each one. So you need to try them unless you've found strings that thrill you on your own guiitars. I have.

Thanks for the great reply, I've tried pretty much all the flatwounds currently available and for sure Thomastik Swings are the highest quality and have the longest lifespan as far as I can tell. My experience with the Gibson HiFi strings was that, ironically considering the name, were more lo-fi, quite gritty when picking harder but also quite mellow when picking softer.

[Iced Tea]

FWIW, guitarist Ed Cherry told me that Dogal flat wounds from Italy reminded him the most of these Gibsons from a modern manufacturer. I've played them ever since.

I have seen these before but never really looked into them as they quite pricey! However given that they're round core I'll have to try them.

Which type do you use? There's about 3 different types as far as I can tell.

[ombudsman]

Optima and Dogal are both making chrome steel wrapped round core flats.

[omphalopsychos]

Have said it a number of times. Dogal Expressive Jazz flats are the best sounding flatwounds I've ever tried. Blows away Thomastik. Played a gig with them on a wesmo yesterday, the sound was awesome, and I usually hate flatwounds.