G string buzzing but adjacent strings don't. Any ideas? (video content)

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

It's pretty common for wooden saddle slots to be very shallow, just deep enough to hold the strings in place. But that requires the saddle to be radiused perfectly, and most I've seen are too flat for many, if not most, fingerboards. Having the saddle too flat means the center strings will be lower than the outer strings, so when the saddle is set to a height that gives ideal action for the E strings, the D and G are too low and buzz. My solution has been to cut the saddle slots deeper on the outer strings, going a little at a time, until all the strings have a uniform action height. Then I may or may not remove the saddle and re-radius it to attain uniform sot depths. TBH, I usually do that only if the outer slots are very deep, and they can be if the saddle was very flat and there is a tight radius to the fingerboard. I do my own work, but having this done by a tech shouldn't be expensive.

That's certainly true. But the bridge slots would have to be awfully low to cause buzzing on the first fret.

Meanwhile, I never saw an answer from the OP to my question about the strings. Are they eally as black as they look in the video and, if so, are they tape wound?

[SOLR]

Something basic like this comes in handy when looking for high/low areas.

Works best when covering 3 frets !!!!

S

[sgosnell]

IME, action that is too low will cause buzzing on every fret. It is possible that a truss rod that is overly tightened can cause buzzing at the first fret as well. I can't say for sure exactly what the problem is without handling the guitar, but if raising the bridge stops the buzzing, I would bet on a saddle slot.

[buduranus2]

That's certainly true. But the bridge slots would have to be awfully low to cause buzzing on the first fret.

Meanwhile, I never saw an answer from the OP to my question about the strings. Are they eally as black as they look in the video and, if so, are they tape wound?

Yes they are and yes they are.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Yes they are and yes they are.

That’s your problem. Tapewounds exert much less tension at pitch than metal wound strings, and they vibrate over a wider envelope. You have to set up the guitar very differently for them or they do what they’re doing to you.

You need to set the truss rod for more relief because the strings will not pull as hard on the neck as metal wound strings. If it was slotted for metal strings, the nut will probably need to be filled a bit and recut (or even replaced).

When switching to tapewounds, it’s also common to go up in string diameter.

[buduranus2]

That’s your problem. Tapewounds exert much less tension at pitch than metal wound strings, and they vibrate over a wider envelope. You have to set up the guitar very differently for them or they do what they’re doing to you.

You need to set the truss rod for more relief because the strings will not pull as hard on the neck as metal wound strings. If it was slotted for metal strings, the nut will probably need to be filled a bit and recut (or even replaced).

When switching to tapewounds, it’s also common to go up in string diameter.

Thanks very much for that. Figured they might have had something to do with it. They came with the guitar and I liked them immediately. Very dark and dead sounding, which is my preference. Also I've noticed they're not at all "woofy" on the low E string especially at the 12th fret and beyond. I'll take it to my repairman and see what he can do. Worst case I've got a set of TI Bensons lying around. From experience they settle in nicely after about a month. Again, many thanks.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Thanks very much for that. Figured they might have had something to do with it. They came with the guitar and I liked them immediately. Very dark and dead sounding, which is my preference. Also I've noticed they're not at all "woofy" on the low E string especially at the 12th fret and beyond. I'll take it to my repairman and see what he can do. Worst case I've got a set of TI Bensons lying around. From experience they settle in nicely after about a month. Again, many thanks.

Tapes are controversial - some love them and some hate them. I think the Pizzareiils both use(d) La Bellas. I’ve never tried them because they require so much change in setup. If I didn’t stick with them, I’d have to redo the work again, and I’m very happy with JS113s on my carved archtops and GB114s on the laminated box. I also like the fact that the TIs are good for a year+ of gigging, although I change the unwound E and B every few months.

Enjoy that Ibanez - it’s a wonderful guitar!

[StoneWaller]

The g string on the medium labella tapes, I believe is quite low in tension despite the .36 gauge, which would probably highlight any set up flaws on the instrument. On the light set, the .28 G was unplayable with my setup. Labella doesn't post tension, but Galli does, and their black tapes are of equivalent guage but with seemingly more tension. The G string is published near 38 lbs, which I'm fairly confident is tighter than the labellas. If you like the tapes, maybe give those a try.

[SOLR]

Thanks very much for that. Figured they might have had something to do with it. They came with the guitar and I liked them immediately. Very dark and dead sounding, which is my preference. Also I've noticed they're not at all "woofy" on the low E string especially at the 12th fret and beyond. I'll take it to my repairman and see what he can do. Worst case I've got a set of TI Bensons lying around. From experience they settle in nicely after about a month. Again, many thanks.

How did we get from one string buzzing to putting the blame on en entire set? Especially if you like them!

There have been suggestions for testing if it is in fact the G saddle that is too low, It costs nothing. (post 18)

If you've already addressed all the other possibilities mentioned earlier, then Change that string only!



S

[StoneWaller]

I have two unopened spare G strings (.36) from a medium set (800m)labella sent me as a replacements for dead string. If you'd like to try and just replace the single I'd be happy to send them to you. Pm your addresses and I'll stick them in an envelope

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

How did we get from one string buzzing to putting the blame on en entire set?

That guitar was almost certainly set up for standard metal wrapped strings, and the tapewounds were added without realizing that the setup specs are quite different. If you listen carefully to the video, you can hear that the D string is also affected.

Tapewounds need more clearance than traditional metal wound strings because they vibrate more widely at the same pitch. Lower mass + lower tension = the same note. They have less mass because the outer wrap is nylon rather than metal, and I believe the core is a bit thinner. So they tune with less tension at standard pitch. Less tension means less relief because there’s less pull on the headstock. So you have to loosen the truss rod to add back the relief that had been created by the additional tension of metal strings.

Most players go up at least a few thou in string thickness when switching to tapes. Labella light TW strings are 12-56. Dropping these onto a guitar set up for the same size Chromes will result in exactly what happened to the OP’s guitar. And they’ll feel like spaghetti compared to Chromes. But even if you go up in gauge and everything else is fine, the setup still has to be done because the nut and saddle slots will not be right.

Start with nut slot depth. The minimum string height above the first fret with the 3rd one fretted is 12 to 13 thou for metal strings. For tapewounds, the minimum is about 20 thou under the low 3 strings and 18 under the high 3. Neither relief nor action can be as low with tapes as with metal. When there’s a buzz from the first fret on up, the cause is not at the bridge saddle.

[buduranus2]

Tapes are controversial - some love them and some hate them. I think the Pizzareiils both use(d) La Bellas. I’ve never tried them because they require so much change in setup. If I didn’t stick with them, I’d have to redo the work again, and I’m very happy with JS113s on my carved archtops and GB114s on the laminated box. I also like the fact that the TIs are good for a year+ of gigging, although I change the unwound E and B every few months.

Enjoy that Ibanez - it’s a wonderful guitar!

One thing I've noticed is that it's impossible to intonate with tapewounds and a fixed-saddle bridge. One string's sharp, the next one's flat. I do like the sound, though. Very few overtones and, as mentioned, no "woofiness" on the low E in the upper register.

As for the guitar itself, I like everything about it. It is feather light, has a reasonably "authentic" tone, and the neck is easy enough to get around on. The finish on it is paper thin, so I wonder if that has anything to do with the sound. Matte on the body but glossier on the neck so pretty comfy to play. I've had some nice archtops in the past (Johnny Smith, two Triggs San Salvadors, and a couple of D'Angelico NYL's.) I'm an intermediate-level player so I'd rather have a guitar more congruent with my ability. (Refer to clip below.) In closing, my sincerest thanks and appreciation for your comments and perspectives!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

One thing I've noticed is that it's impossible to intonate with tapewounds and a fixed-saddle bridge. One string's sharp, the next one's flat. I do like the sound, though. Very few overtones and, as mentioned, no "woofiness" on the low E in the upper register.

As for the guitar itself, I like everything about it. It is feather light, has a reasonably "authentic" tone, and the neck is easy enough to get around on. The finish on it is paper thin, so I wonder if that has anything to do with the sound. Matte on the body but glossier on the neck so pretty comfy to play. I've had some nice archtops in the past (Johnny Smith, two Triggs San Salvadors, and a couple of D'Angelico NYL's.) I'm an intermediate-level player so I'd rather have a guitar more congruent with my ability. (Refer to clip below.) In closing, my sincerest thanks and appreciation for your comments and perspectives!

You play very nicely - I suspect that you sound equally fine on anything you play. The AFJ91 is no Johnny Smith, but it's a nice guitar that should not impede your playing in any way.

Intonation with tapes is difficult, especially with a shorter scale - and your AFJ91 is 24 3/4". Because they're much less tense than metal strings at standard tuning, you have to be very precise with fretting pressure. You only need enough pressure to make firm fret contact - any more can stretch or displace the string enough to affect intonation. You also have to be very precise about fretting perpendicular to the board to avoid any unintended bending. The low tension also makes intonation suffer (especially at the first few frets) if a nut slot is too high. Pushing down enough for firm contact with the first or second fret will stretch the string beyond proper intonation if the slot is even a hair too high. String binding in the nut will affect intonation, as will looseness or a bad slot shape if someone indiscriminately filed out the slots when putting the tapes on.

Here's a thread on this forum about intonation with tapewounds. If it were my guitar, I'd have it completely set up by a good tech or luthier before abandoning tapes on it. The bridge could be out of position, and it probably needs a new nut because even "light gauge" tapes are generally thicker than the standard strings most use on archtops like yours. If your tech or luthier can't get it whre you want it, at least you'll be able to sell it with the confidence of knowing it's been set up properly. I've only had one guitar in 70 years that wouldn't intonate well no matter what I did. It was one of the first 7 string Ibanez flat tops made in China, and it was a real dog that my dealer took back. They rapidly discontinued that model and eventually replaced it with another MIC model (AEL207) that's truly perfect and cost me $500 new.

[buduranus2]

Many thanks again. Best to you!