Would I like an Ibanez JP20 if...

[chris32895]

1. I love the sound of a Stratocaster on the middle position pickup?
I know it's not a humbucker but the physical position is probably similar to the JP20

2. I like a Warmoth neck w/ 25.5" scale, 44mm nut, and standard thin profile?
OK, so I don't have this neck on my guitar but if I were to purchase one with these specs and put it on my Tele would that be a good litmus test for how much I could get along with the JP20 neck? The specs on the JP20 look good but I see most say the neck is really thin, especially at the first (20-20.5mm). I had an Ibanez PM35 with the about the same neck depth and my hand would get cramps so I'm wondering if the longer scale and wider nut would compensate for that.

I'm in the market for a nicer archtop and the JP20 is on my radar. It's one of those fairly identifiable vintage archtop guitars that is actually fairly cheap still. To my knowledge it is the only 16" laminate box with a 25.5" scale and a wide nut. I really like that (on paper, at least). I'm trying to see how I'd like the JP20 based on criteria I'm getting from other instruments.

[Jimmy blue note]

I happen to think the JP20 is the perfect match of edge and warmth... with one HUGE caveat: Replace the Super58 pickup (save it, they're worth a lot on Ebay), and throw in a Gibson PAF, or Duncan Antiquities, or Seth Lover. They balance the warmth of the pickup with the attack edge (acoustic transient) that comes from that position.
I did that and it totally transformed that guitar into an indescribable instrument.
My experience anyway.

[dconeill]

1. ... Stratocaster ... middle position pickup ,,, physical position is probably similar to the JP20

2. I [might, if I actually tried one] like a Warmoth neck w/ 25.5" scale, 44mm nut, and standard thin profile [but I really don't know]?
OK, so I don't have this neck on my guitar ... The specs on the JP20 look good but I see most say the neck is really thin... I had an Ibanez PM35 with the about the same neck depth and my hand would get cramps so I'm wondering if the longer scale and wider nut would compensate for that.

I'm in the market for a nicer archtop and the JP20 is on my radar. It's one of those fairly identifiable vintage archtop guitars that is actually fairly cheap still. To my knowledge it is the only 16" laminate box with a 25.5" scale and a wide nut. I really like that (on paper, at least). I'm trying to see how I'd like the JP20 based on criteria I'm getting from other instruments.

I have never played an Ibanez JP20, so my comments are based on general considerations.
#1. Does the Stratocaster neck pickup sound like a Les Paul neck pickup? After all, they're in the same position. Answer: no. Will a Stratocaster middle pickup provide a good comparison case to a JP 20 pickup? Answer (laughing): no.

#1a. Is the JP20 pickup about in the same position as a Stratocaster middle pickup? Answer: not as I see it.

#2. You're wondering if a neck that has dimensions similar to a neck that caused you pain will be satisfactory? Answer: You can probably guess my comment, but here it is anyway: If you didn't like the PM35 neck what in the world makes you think you'd like the JP20 neck just because it's 3/4 of an inch longer?

#3 (cheap archtop) - it looks to me that you're jonesing for a JP20 because of its cost. I think you're trying to convince yourself that the guitar that you think you can afford, even though it has specs you don't like, will do the trick for you. I think this is profoundly misguided and likely to be wrong.

You have to ask yourself, why was the JP20 a failure in the marketplace, and why don't you see them very often? Maybe because few people liked them? Given what you said, why do you think you would like one?

I have a couple of alternative suggestions:
1. A Tele worked for Ed Bickert, it can work for you. He had a Tele with a neck humbucker late in his career, with a regular Tele pickup earlier. His tone was wonderful, his playing even better.
2. If you must have an archtop, save your money until you can afford a guitar that you actually want for the guitar, not for the price. Try the guitar first if you can.

[chris32895]

All good points. Might just be GAS but I know there are some on here who really like the JP20 so was trying to find some metrics by which I could see if it's suitable for me or not.

[Stringswinger]

I am a Strat guy (as well as a Les Paul and Telecaster guy) and I owned an Ibanez JP-20 for a couple of years and used it on many gigs. In addition, one of my three Strats has a Warmoth neck with their thin profile.

Here are some thoughts:

1. The pickup placement does make the JP-20 a brighter guitar than say an ES-175. But it still sounds great for jazz. I am not sure which contributes to the brighter sound more, the pickup placement or the scale length.

2. The neck is thin just like an early 60's Gibson ES-175 (I had one of those at one point being a big Joe Pass fan, how could I not?). I like thinner necks, though I can get along with a fat neck so long as it has a C profile.

3. While it has a 1 3/4 nut, the way they slotted the nut, it really doesn't feel different than a 1 11/16 nut.

I sold my early 60's ES-175 because I did not like the way my restoration work turned out (note to self, always buy guitars that someone else has restored so you actually know what you are getting).

I sold the JP-20 because at the end of the day, if I want to play a 16 inch laminate archtop, the Gibson ES-175 is my tool of choice (I own three at present). But I liked the Ibanez just fine. I do prefer a 24.75 scale (though I do fine with 25.5) and I prefer a 1 11/16 nut (though I do fine with 1 5/8).

If you like the sound and feel of a modern Strat, you might like the JP-20 and because of the unwarranted bad reviews that jazz guitarists (mostly amateurs) have given that model, you can get them at a reasonable price. It is my understanding that Joe Pass preferred the Gibson ES-175 and eventually went back to Gibson. But he did use the JP-20 for a lot of shows and there is ample video on the web with him playing that guitar. And he sounded great playing it. But he was Joe Pass. He would have sounded great playing just about any guitar.

HTH

[nyc chaz]

I went on a quest for the JP2O not too long ago.There is a difference in the necks between early models and later models when they were built in a different factory i believe.I preferred the earlier model with the thinner neck.I didn't wind up getting the guitar because i have other laminate archtops that i liked better but they are great guitars.

[Archie]

I went on a quest for the JP2O not too long ago.There is a difference in the necks between early models and later models when they were built in a different factory i believe.I preferred the earlier model with the thinner neck.I didn't wind up getting the guitar because i have other laminate archtops that i liked better but they are great guitars.

Chaz is right. The later models have a fatter neck. The jp-20 neck has another slight anomaly in that it stays quite consistent in its width.
A JP-20 is my daily player. I've had 4 of them and they all sounded about as good as a 16” can before you go to a Borys or Sadowski etc.
I say this because they aren’t like Es-175’s; they are built in the D’Aquisto style.
The 25’1/2 scale also gives more of an L5 string feel and note pop imo.

I 3d scanned one, rebuilt the arched plates in CAD, machined them on a CNC and then pressed new plates. As you do.

[chris32895]

I happen to think the JP20 is the perfect match of edge and warmth... with one HUGE caveat: Replace the Super58 pickup (save it, they're worth a lot on Ebay), and throw in a Gibson PAF, or Duncan Antiquities, or Seth Lover. They balance the warmth of the pickup with the attack edge (acoustic transient) that comes from that position.
I did that and it totally transformed that guitar into an indescribable instrument.
My experience anyway.

Hi Jimmy, I've noticed in other threads you say you worked for Ibanez and also own (or owned) a PM20 model. I currently have a PM20 model I'm trying - may or may not sell it. Anyways, besides the scale length and nut width, how close in neck thickness and carve thereabouts would you say the JP20 is in comparison to this model?

Looking at specs of the JP20 and PM20, the size and shape of the bodies between the two should be exactly the same. So that way, if I know I like the body of the PM20 I should get along well with the JP20.

[Archie]

Hi Jimmy, I've noticed in other threads you say you worked for Ibanez and also own (or owned) a PM20 model. I currently have a PM20 model I'm trying - may or may not sell it. Anyways, besides the scale length and nut width, how close in neck thickness and carve thereabouts would you say the JP20 is in comparison to this model?

Looking at specs of the JP20 and PM20, the size and shape of the bodies between the two should be exactly the same. So that way, if I know I like the body of the PM20 I should get along well with the JP20.

They are essentially the same body. The Ibanez FG100, Jp20, Af200, GB200 and any other Ibanez flagship or artist 16” model, will have the same body. The shape slightly changed but only regarding the shape of the arched plates and the cutaway. The thickness and width should be the same (except the GB200 which was 16.5” wide.
In fact the initial body for all these models was the JP20. The only differences being the FG100 and I think PM have traditional Fholes, whilst the JP20, AF200 have D’Aquisto styles. The JP is the only one with a 25’1/2 scale. The Jp20 is a very comfortable guitar and why I prefer them to Es-175’s (prefer not better).

[pingu]

I only know that a JP20 I tried ages ago
had the best neck I’ve ever played ….
fabulous

(I didn’t dig the pickup placement or the
25.5 scale and I don’t know if it was an early or later one, sorry)

[Rolf Field]

I own a JP20 for about 20 years now. It's a great guitar. I swapped the super58 for a bartolini pickup. I wanted more modern tone.
The Neck is great. Pick up placement is a bit odd but not realy a no go

[Cunamara]

The pickup placement is readily explained. Joe liked his ES-175 which had the gap between the end of the fretboard and the pickup. He went to a laminate D'Aquisto which also had a gap but that appears slightly smaller than the ES-175's gap in the photos. Both of these were 20 fret guitars. When the JP20 was designed- based visually on the D'Aquisto- the space between the pickup and the fingerboard was maintained at the ES-175 gap but the JP20 has 22 frets and a longer scale. This puts the pickup closer to the bridge and hence has a brighter tone, combined with the longer scale which also tends to have a brighter tone. Differences in pickup resonant frequency would also contribute to a brighter or darker sound.

Some folks don't like this about the JP20. If one strongly prefers the dark Jim Hall ES-175 sound, which is for many is the definition of jazz guitar tone, the JP20 will probably not be pleasing. A lot of great jazz guitarists have a pretty bright sound: Charlie Christian, Django Reinhardt, George Barnes, Grant Green, Barney Kessel and Peter Bernstein being just a few of them. And of course, Joe Pass, whose tone is on the brighter side no matter what instrument he is playing. If one likes the middle Strat pickup as a reference, the JP20 is probably going to sound thicker than that but will still be brighter than many "jazz" guitars.

And our own Joe D channelling Joe P:

In an interview (I think it's the "evening with Joe Pass" video talking with Don Mock), Joe mentioned that he frequently traveled and performed without an amp and went direct to the PA. He preferred hearing the sound coming from the house rather than from a point on the stage. However, Joe acknowledged being at the mercy of the sound person and the PA in terms of whether his tone was good or bad.

[entresz]

For me a JP 20 would be a no-go just because of the neck pickup placement. Same goes for 24 fret instruments. The tonal change in pickup position can't be dialled out with EQing. They always sound a bit choked.