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I originally posted this request for assistance on the Acoustic Guitar Forum. A member there suggested that I post here as well. Here's the original post:
I'm in need of identifying a recent archtop acquisition that has no labels or identifying model or SN stamps. I have spent nearly 2 weeks searching the web including the vintage archtop sites in Europe for a match and to no avail. I did find a matching headstock with faux MOP on a Hopf but nothing else came close to matching.
A friend advised and I did remove the trapeze tailpiece and found what appears to be a date of 9.11.54. I was told that "German" constructed sound boxes were dated here to not interfere with finishing.
It is "blonde" with what appears to be maple top, sides and back. The bindings are exceptional including the f-holes and neck. Both "floating" bridge and pickup work perfectly.
The action is very low and very east to play and the intonation near perfect.
Can you help me identify what I have found?
I can provide more detail pictures.
Thanks for your assistance!Last edited by swooten; 04-10-2025 at 04:23 PM. Reason: add pics
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04-10-2025 11:52 AM
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I can't view the photos you attached at the Acoustic Guitar Forum without creating an account and signing in.
Better to attach them to a post at this forum rather than ask people to follow a hyperlink to another site.
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Thanks David. I could not attach pics when I originally posted. They have now been added. Thank you.
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I don’t know what it is, but I want one.
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Have you looked :here at the german archtop post ? a few experts hang around there....
S
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Hammertone is the resident Hofneurologist, and knows a thing or three about German guitars!
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The headstock looks like Soli but that design and the ice cream bars on the fingerboard was favored by German archtop builders of that time period.
Soli/Hanika archtop guitar 50's, German vintage - Reverb.com
Randy-Bachman-Sampo-archtop-guitar - Julian's Auctions
Randy Bachmans German guitar collection on Julian's auction site is very cool (link above).Last edited by Mick-7; 04-11-2025 at 04:47 PM.
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The top certainly looks spruce from your photo of it, the rest maple. Whether solid or laminated I can’t discern.
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My mostly-inexpert opinion:
It looks German to me. I'd guess 50s (no truss rod) and from west Germany (I can't see the Stauffer bolt on the neck heel). But I can't tell if the top is laminated or solid (because I can't see a center seam in the front, the back has one). It looks too flat to have been carved, so it's probably pressed laminated or solid.
The German archtop-ologists will be able to read the shape of the f-holes, because different manufacturers had different designs. It's too subtle for me; I don't even really know what to look for. Things like width, curve, size, the ends and the middle. I don't have an eye for it, but it doesn't look like a Soli or a Klira to me. An expert would know immediately, or you could spend a lot of time on vintage German archtop websites, comparing f-holes until your eyes bleed (which is actually kinda fun!).
That headstock shape is used everywhere, so I don't think it's a good indication of manufacturer. The way it's laminated (5 piece?) might mean something but I have no idea.
But I would like to reiterate: I am not an expert, just having fun with making a guess. German archtops are really cool.
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I could be wrong, but to me this looks like a standard Wolfgang Hüttl (1921 - 1995), though heavily modified (tuners, the bridge is a weirdo, even not sure if the black stripes on the headstock were painted on or repainted later). These ones were pretty basic archtops, but can be refurbished into good value and good-sounding little workhorses.
In his best days Hüttl in Bubenreuth produced over five hundreds guitar per day, in countless smaller and bigger variations over the years. He also made some really cool and special archtop guitars as well, Op(tical)-Art models. Just google some pics or look here: Wolfgang Hüttl – Schlaggitarren , C1961 very rare HÜTTL "Opus", Top Of The Line! | Reverb Deutschland , Repair gallery 4 for Nicole Alosinac Luthiery - Guitar Repair, Violin Restoration (Vancouver) .
Laminated spruce tops were typical for many Hüttls, though he used solid pressed woods as well. Or laminated maple. Or whatever the moon phase told him. The necks were well-made, just a bit on the beefier side in the 1950s, but quite comfortable and playable later - what would be expected. One tell-tale: many Hüttl archtops show fretboards with 20 frets that nevertheless extend a little further towards the bridge, like is here the case.
Yes, these models show also a bit "Klira appearance", another large-scale company in the neighborhood of Bubenreuth, besides Framus and Höfner. In fact, they are also a bit reminiscent to the Höfner 457. I can't see any evidence for a Soli (Hanika) guitar.
Once again, my personal experience with Hüttl guitars is limited, except for some Opus 59 / 60 models.
Btw., this zero fret may have reached the end of its life span ...
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More later, but, to start:
-almost every bit of hardware, including the string spacer, is not original, with the possible exception of the tailpiece, which is an old ABM model commonly used on West German budget archtops;
-the 5-piece neck is commonly seen on all sorts of West German archtops. It was most likely supplied to the builder's shop by Kollitz;
-the narrow, tapering "ice cream cone" heel shape is very consistent with early '50s West German archtop design. By the late '50s most makers had gone to much wider heels;
-the back is laminated. The top is not carved - probably laminated, maybe solid pressed - the symmetrical outside grain is the giveaway.
-NOT a Höfner, Framus, A. Hoyer, R.Hoyer, Fasan, Tellson, Neubauer, Roger;
-Maybe a Hüttl, Klira, Hopf, Isana...
Last edited by Hammertone; 04-11-2025 at 08:07 PM.
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Why is the symmetrical grain a sign that the top is not carved? Would variation of the arch from one side vs. the other make the grain appear slightly more random?
Originally Posted by Hammertone
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Greetings and thanks for all the expert advice and directions. You have led me down many web discovery paths and perhaps some more pics would be more helpful of my unit and the "relative" I have found on the many links you have provided. I have added the pic of the presumed date found under the trapeze, yes - I now believe the top of my unit is possibly spruce as it is unlike the maple sides and back. Also, I have added another pic of my fretboard with 22 total frets and faux MOP on frets 3, 5, 7, 9, and 12 and the 1.5 extra fretboard after the 22nd fret. I mention these features as most all examples I have found with the exception of Hofner do not have these fretboard features. I did find a near perfect headstock match on a 50's Hopf but the fret and f-hole features differ. So, I continue with your assistance on my "genealogical" journey for my archtop brand/maker. A great weekend wish to all.
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<< Also, I have added another pic of my fretboard with 22 total frets ... >>
Strange, I count only 20 frets! The zero fret doesn't count, that's why it's called 'zero'.
The first guitar on your post #13 is a Klira. Hopf never made archtop guitars themselves. They resold brands like Soli, Klira, Isana, Fasan, Glassl, and others.
Never rely on the hardware (they changed a lot, and players modified even more) and bling like headstock plates, fretboard inlays, and so on - dito! The same is with the finish.
Many folks (including even most commercial sellers on the web) forget to give some basic dimensions of their guitars: the upper and lower bout, the waist, the body length, the side depth, the scale length, the neck width and thickness and profile - but there's differences in sound and playability! The style of bracing tells a lot for the experienced. Many German vintage brands have little tell-tales, though even these are not set in stone. Many Hüttls show 20 frets and their fretboards look as if they simply missed to add the 21st and 22nd fret.
Sure your guitar top has an outer layer of spruce. It is likely a laminated top, though Hüttl might have used pressed solid plates as early as in 1954, maybe even a carved spruce top (very unlikely). Hüttl's later flagships models, the Opus 59 / 60 (meaning the years) usually had pressed solid spruce plates and laminated maple or maple / mahogany backs.
Like Hammertone said, the neck blank of your guitar was bought in from Kollitz, a still existing and respectable tonewood supplier.
I don't have to change my opinion, to me it's an earlier Hüttl, model 'Combo', or whatever they called it.
If you want to delve a little deeper into the matter, you can go through some pics of a web museum like, for instance, Vintage Guitars Webmuseum - Vintage Guitars Webmuseum . Search 'archtop' under construction and 'Hüttl' under brand. You could do the same with 'Klira', 'Soli', 'Hopf', 'Fasan', 'Isana', and so on.
If you think this could be boring, I would agree. In this case - and if you like the guitar - just play it and have some good time.
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Originally Posted by Hammertone
Hammertone, I would be cautious in making the assessment that a symmetrical outside grain could be a giveaway for a solid pressed (spruce) top. I've seen too many Glassl made, often Hopf label, 319S models (btw., most of them being really great c. 16.5" archtops, no matter if laminated or solid) with quite even-looking bookmatched spruce tops - that were just laminations with a nice and bookmatched outside spruce layer. The "jack of all trades" Glassl used carved, pressed solid and laminated tops, depending on the time period, the availabilty and probably his day mood. Well, you could tell the difference by the carving patterns, or by grasping the top near the soundholes, or by looking inside, or by ear, though I bet that most players didn't care, back then, probably still don't.
The outside spruce layer of Hüttl laminated archtop soundboards (some other brands as well) is often characterized by uneven or irregular small and wide annular rings. Hüttl made use of similar spruce wood for the solid pressed tops though. Well, all this does not necessarily have to be detrimental to the sound, but somehow the general lower price level - for instance, in comparison to Glassl guitars - had also to be reflected by using "cheaper" tonewood.
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You are correct - 20 frets. I miscounted. Thank you for your valuable information and suggestions.
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Yes, that is what I wrote: "probably laminated, maybe solid pressed." When bookmatched wood grain is identically mirrored, it means that the visible two pieces were directly next to each other in the log, regardless of any other considerations. This does not happen when a top is carved - the visible wood in the re-carved areas on opposite sides of the plate ends up looking a bit different - they are from planes that are further apart in the log. Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
It's fairly easy to spot a bookmatched plate that has wood grain that is directly mirrored. There are usually some small movements in the grain that act as markers. So, they are usually laminated, but can also be solid pressed wood.
Of course, plates (carved, solid pressed or laminated) do not need to be made with bookmatched wood, but German builders tended to use bookmatched wood.
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