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It seems Gibson no longer is building the real carved top guitars although once in a while one appears. I wonder if anyone else thinks this could be a go for Gibson? I started this thread in light of what Heritage is now doing.
Gibson decides to build Super 400's, L5's, and the Legrand we will say for instance. The guitars can be ordered as acoustics and carved with that sound in mind. They could also be order as CES guitars with either one pickup or two. The key is that these guitars will only be made by custom order ahead of time just like any other individual maker. There will be no middleman in the distribution the order is direct from Gibson by an individual. You call the factory put down the money and they begin the build. Pickup in person or they ship the guitar to your house. My guess is you need to put down say 25% deposit to start the build.
I have no idea of the economics but truthfully Gibson will not be making a huge amount of money on these guitars but for the moment I suggest a price.
$15,000. That would be the build price just like getting any handmade luthier guitar no percentage off no dealer to hassle or go through. You call Gibson send put in your order and send them $3750.
I throw this out just a taking point and would this be something some might have a real interest in buying? The price is not necessarily competitive but maybe no outright crazy for a genuine real American Made Gibson guitar. Note that these guitars would not be anything new in design but the regular old guitars like these they make. I don't know but I think it is a worthy option.
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04-05-2025 12:07 PM
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One word: Campellone
Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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Other than nostalgia for the instruments of yore, and for the name on the headstock, I don't know why any guitarists would choose this hypothetical "Gibson Custom Shop" over an already-extant custom archtop builder with a reputation that already vastly exceeds that of the current Gibson company's.
I mean, yeah, I probably do prefer the look of a Gibson to 90% of the custom archtops out there...but I have no illusions that an archtop built by Gibson in 2025 will come close to the quality of a custom archtop in the five-figure neighborhood.
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Possibly I agree with this depending on who the builder is at the moment. The problem I see is that right now a plain old Gibson L5 Wes is more money that finding a used Campellone. Mark C cannot make that many guitars. My experience with Gibson from the 1990's to around 2009 is that when they got it right, it was right and equal to any luthiers or close enough. The point is Gibson has held its value quite well and much better than most individual luthiers. Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
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The private builders with "a reputation that already vastly exceeds that of the current Gibson company's" does so to a much smaller market segment. Gibson has some big cache. I would be tempted to choose Gibson for two reasons, one the resale is way better than any other, and two when Gibson gets it right, they are exceeded by no one. I'm not sure I can agree with you on a Gibson 2025 not coming close. They have built some dogs in the past, conversely some unmatched instruments. I have always looked at Gibson as a good investment, and since my music tastes tend to be fluid that's a pretty good choice. Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
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I wonder if Gibson may already be doing this to some extent.
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I am constantly baffled that one of the top Archtop builders in the USA today and in the past somehow escapes these discussions-Benedetto.
OK I admit I'm super biased my 1990 Benedetto Cremona built by Bob is my working and favorite guitar of ANY type I've played or owned.
However in the modern age with Bob not as hands on, the team in Savannah is crafting some exquisite instruments at competitive prices. The business seems to be doing very well. And it's not just "rich Doctors and Lawyers" that are obtaining them-the recent guitars have a very impressive roster of talented players, old and new performing with their instruments.
Even the thread on the new Heritage H-717 compares the product to the Benedetto Americana. That would be a no brainer if I was in the market, Benedetto all the way.
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[QUOTE=SierraTango;1402556]I am constantly baffled that one of the top Archtop builders in the USA today and in the past somehow escapes these discussions-Benedetto.
OK I admit I'm super biased my 1990 Benedetto Cremona built by Bob is my working and favorite guitar of ANY type I've played or owned.
However in the modern age with Bob not as hands on, the team in Savannah is crafting some exquisite instruments at competitive prices. The business seems to be doing very well. And it's not just "rich Doctors and Lawyers" that are obtaining them-the recent guitars have a very impressive roster of talented players, old and new performing with their instruments.
Even the thread on the new Heritage H-717 compares the product to the Benedetto Americana. That would be a no brainer if I was in the market, Benedetto all the way.[/QUOTE
With no disrespect to Bob Benedetto, but I have never had really a desire for one of his guitars. I would not mind one of his that he himself built during his golden age when he did all the work and somewhere around 1988-1992 ish. Otherwise, he lent his skills to others and factories to build according to his pattern. I have no desire to own one of those guitars. Generally, I find other luthiers to have style and guitar that i like better. Bob did make fine instruments no doubt but personally I have never thought about buying one.
On the other hand, Gibson just seems to check all the boxes much better. While we can agree they have made mistakes and dogs, but they have been building guitars a long time. I have a 2003 Legrand and it is set up and made with attention to detail and QC that equals or exceeds anything individual luthier. It sounds great too.
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I really don't care if Gibson made archtops ever again.So many great builders are out there today to choose from.Any Gibson archtop built today would most probably just carry an absurd prictag.Having Gibson on the headstock is of little importance to me.
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Does Gibson even have anyone who can build an archtop guitar anymore?
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I wonder this all the time. What did they do with the luthiers who had the skill? Lay them off? Put them on the production line gluing caps on Les Pauls? Originally Posted by Cunamara
Do the luthiers who were victim of the archtop purge hang around waiting for the "Um, we're thinking of building archtops again" call?
Gibson made such a great reputation with some of the most iconic and great carved archtops, and they don't even have the people to regain that reputation.
It's good to see indie luthiers making good instruments for the players out there. I'm waiting for Chibson L-5 knock offs to hit the market. There are certainly up to the task to building working man's instruments in the spirit of the original Gibson archtops. Which shop will dare to put a Gibson headstock on their guitar, as a joke?
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They still build 335s and 350T. So its just the carving which I would think would be done with CNC. I assume they have all the jigs etc. I'm sure a company like Gibson can hire a consultant if need be. I just don't think they feel there is enough of a market to justify. Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
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This is considered an archtop -- Epiphone Casino (USA Collection) Originally Posted by Cunamara
They still have their custom shops, will they make an archtop to order? -- Made to Measure | Gibson
Yes, exactly. Originally Posted by skiboyny
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I suspect that final carving of archtop plates needs to be done by hand and requires a lot of skill. Originally Posted by skiboyny
But if Gibson needs to hire a skilled artisan to do final carving, they have the resources to do so.
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I know this fact - The Crimson Custom shop was a separate building with their very best builders. Gibson sold that building along with the Memphis building when they went bankrupt.
James Culbertson ( Hutch's replacement ) is still there but as far as all the Crimson builders, who knows.
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I don’t think Gibson can produce a real archtop carved or not at a price that the public will accept.
The Heritage 575 is $4500 at Sweetwater. There’s no way Gibson can compete with that.
And of course the majority of the archtop manufacturing these days is foreign. Some would say the quality of many foreign guitars is as good as Gibson.
And no tariffs will not even the playing field. I see zero chance Gibson will get back into archtop manufacturing in a big way.
(What they COULD have done, IMO, is to move manufacturing of signature laminate models to Japan or Korea, as in the Epiphone inspired by Gibson series. They could even have assembled them in the US and used real Gibson pickups. The top-selling midsize truck [Tacoma] is made in Mexico for a reason…But that ship has sailed.)
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I think Gibson had trouble selling the L5’s and so on.
No one with a brain was paying list price for those things.
I can’t imagine dealers were thrilled about having to stock them, and no doubt footed most of the losses.
But given they are expensive and time consuming to make, naturally they were Private Equity’d out of existence. (I think we should start using Private Equity as a verb btw.)
They aren’t going to making mainline carved archtops.
Furthermore the institutional knowledge at Gibson is now lost. You could make them using a third party contractor and see if you can make a profit from relabelling them, but I don’t expect they are in a hurry to do that either. The margins are too low.
If I sound negative, I’m actually not. That company was driven into bankruptcy through hubris and poor business decisions. It’s thanks to KKR that it is still a guitar company. But there’s going to be a focus on the profit margin, so overpriced reliced Les Pauls will continue to dominate so long as blues lawyers continue to buy them.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by Christian Miller; 04-13-2025 at 05:31 AM.
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Gibson's best selling guitar 2024
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Would it have been anything else for the last 30-40 years? Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Gibson's best selling guitar 2024
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Maybe we should refer to the long-running "Why Isn't Jazz Popular?" thread before criticising Gibson for not making jazz guitars.
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Yes, but maybe, Les Paul originally designed his guitars for playing Jazz? Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Well, it is a beaut… Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Gibson's best selling guitar 2024
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Gibson’s time as a premier archtop maker during the modern era has not vanished for no reason. They rode the wave of the growth of American jazz music with their production of electric/amplified archtops. Gibson became the icon for jazz guitar, and if you really wanted one you could save your money and buy one. During that time, however, top-level players knew there were small shops such as D’Angelico, and a handful of others, who were producing truly outstanding hand-carved instruments.
Jazz music has now clearly become a niche market and further, many contemporary jazz guitarists don’t even use finely carved archtop guitars to play it - instead using heavier pressed laminate instruments or solidbody instruments such as Tele styled guitars. (I saw Julian Lage perform with Joe Lovano last week using his T-style through a Fender amp. Wow!!! Kinda made me forget about George Benson ripping it up on his D’Angelico for a minute.)
All that to say, times have changed. Gibson legacy as a preeminent carved archtop builder is a thing of the past. Those who envision it’s return are waxing nostalgic. The market for new finely built archtops, such as it is, has been dominated in recent years by small and one-person shops such as the aforementioned Mark Campellone, Linda Manzer, Ribbecke, Grimes, Buscarino, Heritage, etc.; notwithstanding the truly spectacular work over recent decades of Monteleone, Benedetto, and Ken Parker. And these aging luthiers are being followed by the likes of Trenier, Wilkie, Rancourt, Koentopp, etc. (Not to mention Eastman dominating the market for well built affordable carved archtops for years.)
If I wanted a Gibson archtop it would be one of their vintage 50’s L5 CES models.
AKALast edited by AKA; 04-13-2025 at 01:54 PM.
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Les Paul didn't design the Gibson Les Paul. He simply signed an endorsement deal with Gibson for a new guitar model. Jazz had nothing to do with any of it. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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Les designed the tailpiece of the original Les Paul model. After one year, IIRC, his tailpiece was replaced with the TOM and stop tailpiece. And at the time this model was inroduced, Gibson thought jazz guitarists would embrace it. That never really happened. In fact, nobody really embraced it and the model was a failure, sales wise and it was discontinued in 1961. Originally Posted by Hammertone
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