Joe Pass Emperor II

[ClassyTouch]

Hello everyone!

I’m new here, just picked up an Emperor II and have ran into a mystery I’m hoping you can help me solve. The bottom of my neck is squared off unlike the others I see having a signature wave happening. My serial says my guitar is a 2003 MIK built in peerless. I was able to find another one exactly as mines sold somewhere online.

Is anyone here familiar with this? Did I buy a fake? (Mine's on left)





I'm new to Jazz guitar and really like the way the guitar plays and sounds so I'm going to keep it BUT I was just curious if anyone here has ran into or seen this before?

Thank you

[Cunamara]

Others will have more definitive information about this than I do. However, thinking in terms of practicality selling a fake Epiphone Joe Pass guitar would be a pretty low profit bit of fakery. a fake Gibson L5 or Johnny Smith, on the other hand, might stand a better chance of making some money. Since the penalty is pretty much the same either way, if you're gonna do the crime at least make it pay off.

I think you're fine and that what you're seeing is guitars made in different factories on contract with Epiphone.

[Mick-7]

That is curious.... the one pickup Epiphone Emperor models, which were made in Korea by Peerless, do have a straight bottom neck, for example: Used Epiphone Emperor NA Electric Guitar

[Gitterbug]

As Cunamara said, faking a budget-priced guitar makes little sense. I have actually wondered why Epiphone has cared to make the curved fretboard end on this model. It takes a premium Gibson to have one. Everything else appears to be kosher, so consider the guitar a quirk or a rarity.

Stamps with defects command astronomical prices; I'm afraid you haven't struck gold but not the opposite of it either. Just enjoy the guitar!

[garybaldy]

I had a scout around google images and found just one EEJP with the straight ended fingerboard. It was a 2003.

[ClassyTouch]

Others will have more definitive information about this than I do. However, thinking in terms of practicality selling a fake Epiphone Joe Pass guitar would be a pretty low profit bit of fakery. a fake Gibson L5 or Johnny Smith, on the other hand, might stand a better chance of making some money. Since the penalty is pretty much the same either way, if you're gonna do the crime at least make it pay off.

I think you're fine and that what you're seeing is guitars made in different factories on contract with Epiphone.

Yea that was my first thought! I went into a guitar shop a week ago and they had a Joe Pass Emperor II in there and it felt totally different from mines. The neck was smaller and the overall craftsmanship was different. To your sentiment the shop clerk pointed out that they had a fake Gibson hanging around their shop... Looked just like the real deal to me. It would make sense to fake a more expensive guitar.

[ClassyTouch]

I had a scout around google images and found just one EEJP with the straight ended fingerboard. It was a 2003.

I believe I've seen the same one you saw. The more I dig into it the more it's becoming a 2003 thing check these out

I also wrote Epiphone/Gibson and got this response:




Mystery Solved

[garybaldy]

I believe I've seen the same one you saw. The more I dig into it the more it's becoming a 2003 thing check these out

I also wrote Epiphone/Gibson and got this response:




Mystery Solved

This is all I found. Epiphone Joe Pass Signature Emperor II Natural 2003 - Some Neck Guitars

[ClassyTouch]

This is all I found. Epiphone Joe Pass Signature Emperor II Natural 2003 - Some Neck Guitars

Yea that was the first thing I found. Then all the rest came

[Mick-7]

So, a quick web search told me that 2002-2003 was the time period when Epiphone stopped making guitars in Korea and started manufacturing them in China. Maybe they put the Emperor I (single pickup) necks on the Emperer II (double pickup) model guitars because production was ending and they wanted to use the necks they had in stock.

[garybaldy]

Yea that was the first thing I found. Then all the rest came

I thought I was top nerd on this forum

[garybaldy]

So, a quick web search told me that 2002-2003 was the time period when Epiphone stopped making guitars in Korea and started manufacturing them in China. Maybe they put the Emperor I (single pickup) necks on the Emperer II (double pickup) model guitars because production was ending and they wanted to use the necks they had in stock.

So was there an Emperor I, Emperor II and an Emperor II Joe Pass?

[LesB3]

Epiphone has been making these models in various incarnations (and factories) for decades.

There was an initial (just) "Emperor" model that was essentially the same guitar, but with no signatures, and with the switch located on the cutaway -in fact, thats the easiest way to identify a "pre" Joe Pass model. The JP model came next, and ended up being called the "Emperor II."

[jim777]

Well, Josh from Gibson was surprisingly helpful

[GuyBoden]

They're nice sounding guitars, for a low price. I had one in the 1990's, a friend bought one too, and still plays his.

I remember that the 'Joe Pass' signature on the pickguard wears off, I'd have put some clear (see thru) protective tape over it, if I'd have known.

[garybaldy]

Epiphone has been making these models in various incarnations (and factories) for decades.

There was an initial (just) "Emperor" model that was essentially the same guitar, but with no signatures, and with the switch located on the cutaway -in fact, thats the easiest way to identify a "pre" Joe Pass model. The JP model came next, and ended up being called the "Emperor II."

Yeah, I know about the pre Joe Pass. It's just that Mick7 mentioned a single pickup Emperor I. I hadn't come across that one before. Do you know any more about it?

[LesB3]

Yeah, the "Emperor" name has been applied to quite a few post-US manufacturing models.

There were full-size single pickup Emperor's (those were "regents") that are the same size as a Broadway, but with a floater:



sold at the same time as / along side the "Emperor" and "Emperor II Joe Pass" models. They've got "Emperor Swingsters" too now, that basically looks like a Gretschified E2JP.

[Mick-7]

Yeah, I know about the pre Joe Pass. It's just that Mick7 mentioned a single pickup Emperor I. I hadn't come across that one before. Do you know any more about it?

It gets confusing.... I want the model with the image of an emperor penguin on the headstock, it is so cool.

Yeah, the "Emperor" name has been applied to quite a few post-US manufacturing models.

There were full-size single pickup Emperor's (those were "regents") that are the same size as a Broadway, but with a floater: sold at the same time as / along side the "Emperor" and "Emperor II Joe Pass" models. They've got "Emperor Swingsters" too now, that basically looks like a Gretschified E2JP.

But do the Emperor and Emperor II models have the same body and neck dimensions? If so, it would support my theory that they substituted the neck of the former for the latter nearing end of production in Korea - no time to make new E2 necks so use the E1 necks on hand.

[LesB3]

But do the Emperor and Emperor II models have the same body and neck dimensions? If so, it would support my theory that they substituted the neck of the former for the latter nearing end of production in Korea - no time to make new E2 necks so use the E1 necks on hand.

I suppose that could have been the case. The Emperor Regent is the bigger body size (17" - same as a Broadway, Zephyr Blues Deluxe, etc.) but the Emperor / Emperor II / Joe Pass models are smaller, 15.5" I think. They aren't as deep either, but that shouldn't affect whether the necks were interchangeable since all of them had multi-piece necks anyway. My Broadway has an extra piece of wood in the neck area -theoretically, I suppose it could allow for using the same neck on different body depths! Both it (a Korean 2011 model) and my ZBD (2005) have the non-fancy fingerboard.



The inlays would have been different - Broadways and large-body Emperors would have had "V" inlays, whereas the ZBD and JP models would have been blocks. A casual review of JP models on the web doesn't seem to indicate a change fromn the flat to the fancy fingerboard end, so it might just be your usual Epiphone consistency during the time period. I've found both types from two different factories, no real logic to the dates either. I think all of the models were 25.5" scale.

[Mick-7]

A casual review of JP models on the web doesn't seem to indicate a change from the flat to the fancy fingerboard end, so it might just be your usual Epiphone consistency during the time period. I've found both types from two different factories, no real logic to the dates either. I think all of the models were 25.5" scale.

Yes, but the fact that only the 2003 Peerless Korean factory made JP-II models have the straight neck, and that was the last year of production in Korea before moving it to China, strongly suggests that this inconsistency was intentional.

[LesB3]

Yes, but the fact that only the 2003 Peerless Korean factory made JP-II models have the straight neck, and that was the last year of production in Korea before moving it to China, strongly suggests that this inconsistency was intentional.

Probably, yes. But 2003 wasn't the last year for JP's in Korea. Here's an '04 model made in the Saein factory:
Used Epiphone Used Epiphone Joe Pass Emperor II Natural Hollow Body Electric Guitar Natural | Guitar Center

So, might be a "2003" only spec. Might be certain factories. Might be a combo of both. Who knows! Either way, I don't think it is anything to get worried about.

[Mick-7]

Probably, yes. But 2003 wasn't the last year for JP's in Korea. Here's an '04 model made in the Saein factory:
Used Epiphone Used Epiphone Joe Pass Emperor II Natural Hollow Body Electric Guitar Natural | Guitar Center

So, might be a "2003" only spec. Might be certain factories. Might be a combo of both. Who knows! Either way, I don't think it is anything to get worried about.

For the record, I discovered that 2004, not 2003 as I said earlier, was the last year that Epiphone manufactured guitars in Korea. However, I believe that 2003 was the last year they were made at the Peerless factory in Korea so my wrong neck theory is still credible.

[LesB3]

For the record, I discovered that 2004, not 2003 as I said earlier, was the last year that Epiphone manufactured guitars in Korea. However, I believe that 2003 was the last year they were made at the Peerless factory in Korea so my wrong neck theory is still credible.

Actually, I think the last year might have been as late as 2013, maybe later. I have an '05 Zephyr and an '11 Broadway, both made in Korea. I've seen JP's as late as 2009. None of them Peerless for sure.

Here's a Peerless JP, dated to '98 (though not sure I think that is right) with the sqaured off fingerboard. So maybe a Peerless-only feature, maybe not.

Epiphone Joe Pass Emperor II - Electric Guitar - musical instruments - by owner - sale - craigslist



Who knows!

[Mick-7]

Actually, I think the last year might have been as late as 2013, maybe later. I have an '05 Zephyr and an '11 Broadway, both made in Korea. I've seen JP's as late as 2009. None of them Peerless for sure.

Shucks, guy, you should be ashamed of yourself, you are destroying my innocent faith in the internet as a source of accurate information!

[LesB3]

Shucks, guy, you should be ashamed of yourself, you are destroying my innocent faith in the internet as a source of accurate information!

Hahaha! I don't think that anyone honestly knows when Epi stopped making guitars in Korea, or what parts were even used for any one model. With so many factories, the skies the limit!