Tele For Jazz?

[2-5Guy]

With a plethora of Tele's and T-Style guitars out there, I'm finding it difficult to zero in on one. I already have a Sadowsky T modern Humbucker's but I'd like another T with the classic single coil pups that has that original Fender spank.

Rather than having to wait nearly a year for Roger to make me one, I'd like to find something more readily available. I'm leaning towards a Suhr Classic T but I'm open to suggestions?

Thanks,

[Cunamara]

How about a Fender Telecaster? There's a wide range of options and a wide range of price points; for the price of the Suhr, you could get a pretty darn nice Fender. You could get a pretty darn nice Fender and spend a lot less, too.

[bratistofeles]

With a plethora of Tele's and T-Style guitars out there, I'm finding it difficult to zero in on one. I already have a Sadowsky T modern Humbucker's but I'd like another T with the classic single coil pups that has that original Fender spank.

Rather than having to wait nearly a year for Roger to make me one, I'd like to find something more readily available. I'm leaning towards a Suhr Classic T but I'm open to suggestions?

Thanks,

If I was set on a Tele for jazz I'd go with a Nash or a Fender Custom Shop (owned both). Put a Ron Ellis Julian Lage neck tele pickup and you will be happy for a long time.

[Stringswinger]

I have a Fender American Pro II Tele (Rosewood board) and bone stock, it is a great sounding jazz guitar using the neck pickup with either my Henriksen or my Quilter amp.

[Mick-7]

I think the Suhrs are overpriced. The G&L ASAT's are excellent (not to be confused with their cheaper ASAT Tribute series models), and the Kiesel Solo/Retro Solo has a good rep too.

This is a pretty good overview of Fender's models:
Fender Telecaster Buyers Guide - Andertons Music Co.

[nyc chaz]

I think the Suhrs are overpriced. The G&L ASAT's are excellent (not to be confused with their cheaper ASAT Tribute series models), and the Kiesel Solo/Retro Solo has a good rep too.

This is a pretty good overview of Fender's models:
Fender Telecaster Buyers Guide - Andertons Music Co.

Totally agree on the G&Ltele's.I got to play one 2 years ago and it sounded and felt great.For an American company,it surpises me how little love they seem to get here in the States.

[Al Haig]

Since you have the $$ for full quality, Warmoth is insane. Quality is thru the roof AND you can customize it.

[2-5Guy]

Have any of you had any issues with the barrel saddles causing string buzz?

[jim777]

I've loved all of the Fender Baja Teles I've played and owned. Custom shop designed, MIM prices.

[AllanAllen]

I think the Suhrs are overpriced. The G&L ASAT's are excellent (not to be confused with their cheaper ASAT Tribute series models), and the Kiesel Solo/Retro Solo has a good rep too.

This is a pretty good overview of Fender's models:
Fender Telecaster Buyers Guide - Andertons Music Co.

I’ve got a cheap ASAT Tribute. Got it to see if I’d like a tele. I see no reason to upgrade, it’s an excellent guitar.

[kris]

My the best Tele style guitar with Pat Martino Flatwound 16s GHS strings...
I did a lot of mods:

[JCat]

The Telecaster is obviously a great design capable of different sounds and styles. But just as much as you could play Jazz on any guitar, I don't think of the common Tele as particularly useful for Jazz. I do realize that this may be an unpopular opinion around here, where some people seem to think that the Tele is the ultimate Jazz guitar. I also realize that the OP wants a T-type guitar and like to have recommendations on configurations that make the Tele optimized for Jazz, that's fine, but I think we first need to clear a couple of questions;

-What's your definition of "Jazz" in this context? (These days I find that almost anything seems to qualify as "jazz" as long as it's not the Heavy metal or Blues rock that has been attracting many players.)

-What type of clean tones do you have in mind? A common Tele got great cleans, typically referred to as "Fender cleans" that's part of the "steel guitar" legacy. Some people think of it as "Country" and/or "Hawaii", i.e the opposite of Jazz.

-How do you like to work your amp and guitar controls? A common Tele got two pickups with a huge tone variation between the warm neck PU and the bright bridge PU. People that spend most of the time on the bridge PU (typically "sculpting" distorted tones) and then occasionally flip to the neck PU, thinks it's "instant Jazz", because it suddenly got warm and cozy. Some Teles got a humbucker in the neck position. This could possibly turn things in the direction of Jazz, or not, depending on everything else. Most notably a humbucker typically got higher output. Many Jazz players prefer lower output, which possibly could be another reason why some folks like a Tele for Jazz.

-Do you play fingerstyle? A common Tele got generous bridge string spacing that many finger style players like. If you on the other hand play with a pick you may find that a slightly narrower bridge spacing is preferred. There are a few different Tele bridge designs and I think this is an important factor in the equation.
-What's your preference about string tension and pick attack? A vintage Tele got a 7.5" radius neck, 25.5" scale, that got stiffer tension compared to the 12" fretboard, 24.75" scale often seen in Jazz. Many Jazz players prefer a Trapeze tailpiece, very different from a string through Tele. Some Tele bridges got top-loading option.

-Do you play flats or rounds? Many Jazz guitarists like flatwound strings and you could put them on the Tele too, or any other solid body for that matter, and the sound becomes more "Jazzy". Most Jazz players prefer heavy gauge for several reasons. Most Tele country twangers play snappy light gauge. Anyway, you don't want the outer strings to derail and slip off the fretboard, so nut width, bridge spacing and fretboard must be able to accommodate your string set of choice. Also if you like to experiment with string sets and gauges, you'll probably prefer a head adjusted truss rod.

Have any of you had any issues with the barrel saddles causing string buzz?

Only if you play light gauge, plain G. Most Jazz players would prefer heavy gauge, wound G (That would make any solidbody more suitable for Jazz). Barrel saddles are great and won't buzz provided the guitar is well setup, but I don't think there's anything "Jazzy" about them in particular. Great for Country twang, though.

[supersoul]

My tele has the Nashville pickup configuration, which is a strat pickup added to the middle position between the two tele pickups. I use the middle pickup a lot.
This might be blasphemy, but I actually think the neck pickup in a stock strat is better for jazz than a stock tele. It has a little bit more body/warmth.
So that's my suggestion: a Nashville tele.

[Cunamara]

Ed Bickert used a "common" Telecaster with light gauge strings (.010-.046 according to his interview in Guitar Player magazine) with a plain G. He got that guitar because he was playing in studios and needed a versatile instrument that could cover a variety of genres, rather than having to take multiple guitars to a session. he also noted that it was very durable, easy to transport, etc. It was a practical choice. He used it with the stock Tele neck pickup until the mid to late 70s, switching to a Gibson humbucker. I can't think of any jazz guitarists who got a "better" tone for jazz then Ed, but this of course is a matter of taste. I also really liked Jim Hall's tone most of the time, so you can see the spectrum where my preferences sit. On the other hand, my current favorite jazz guitar tone is Peter Bernstein's.

The ultimate jazz guitar? For most of us in this forum it's probably the Gibson L5CES, Gibson Johnny Smith and/or the Gibson ES-175. The Telecaster may be the most practical jazz guitar, on the other hand. It is durable, portable, plays well and can sound good for just about any genre of music; for a gigging musician, that's an attractive combination of qualities. And you can get a good one for under US $1000, which is not true of an L5, Johnny Smith or ES-175.

[lammie200]

Personally I would think more about the specs that you want in the T-style guitar versus a brand. Obviously, you can probably get a boutique maker to do anything that you want. But, out of all guitars available, you are probably the most apt to find an off-the-shelf Tele that would work for you. At worst, modding the electronics is all you might want to do.

All of that if you don't want to assemble one yourself. I have three Ts that I have assembled myself. It took a while to find things like necks and pickups that I like, but once I found what I like the parts assembly became easy because I knew what I would be getting in the end. I enjoyed the process and I never spent anything close to a boutique cost for one.

[2-5Guy]

The Telecaster is obviously a great design capable of different sounds and styles. But just as much as you could play Jazz on any guitar, I don't think of the common Tele as particularly useful for Jazz. I do realize that this may be an unpopular opinion around here, where some people seem to think that the Tele is the ultimate Jazz guitar. I also realize that the OP wants a T-type guitar and like to have recommendations on configurations that make the Tele optimized for Jazz, that's fine, but I think we first need to clear a couple of questions;

-What's your definition of "Jazz" in this context? (These days I find that almost anything seems to qualify as "jazz" as long as it's not the Heavy metal or Blues rock that has been attracting many players.)

-What type of clean tones do you have in mind? A common Tele got great cleans, typically referred to as "Fender cleans" that's part of the "steel guitar" legacy. Some people think of it as "Country" and/or "Hawaii", i.e the opposite of Jazz.

-How do you like to work your amp and guitar controls? A common Tele got two pickups with a huge tone variation between the warm neck PU and the bright bridge PU. People that spend most of the time on the bridge PU (typically "sculpting" distorted tones) and then occasionally flip to the neck PU, thinks it's "instant Jazz", because it suddenly got warm and cozy. Some Teles got a humbucker in the neck position. This could possibly turn things in the direction of Jazz, or not, depending on everything else. Most notably a humbucker typically got higher output. Many Jazz players prefer lower output, which possibly could be another reason why some folks like a Tele for Jazz.

-Do you play fingerstyle? A common Tele got generous bridge string spacing that many finger style players like. If you on the other hand play with a pick you may find that a slightly narrower bridge spacing is preferred. There are a few different Tele bridge designs and I think this is an important factor in the equation.
-What's your preference about string tension and pick attack? A vintage Tele got a 7.5" radius neck, 25.5" scale, that got stiffer tension compared to the 12" fretboard, 24.75" scale often seen in Jazz. Many Jazz players prefer a Trapeze tailpiece, very different from a string through Tele. Some Tele bridges got top-loading option.

-Do you play flats or rounds? Many Jazz guitarists like flatwound strings and you could put them on the Tele too, or any other solid body for that matter, and the sound becomes more "Jazzy". Most Jazz players prefer heavy gauge for several reasons. Most Tele country twangers play snappy light gauge. Anyway, you don't want the outer strings to derail and slip off the fretboard, so nut width, bridge spacing and fretboard must be able to accommodate your string set of choice. Also if you like to experiment with string sets and gauges, you'll probably prefer a head adjusted truss rod.


Only if you play light gauge, plain G. Most Jazz players would prefer heavy gauge, wound G (That would make any solidbody more suitable for Jazz). Barrel saddles are great and won't buzz provided the guitar is well setup, but I don't think there's anything "Jazzy" about them in particular. Great for Country twang, though.

Fair enough.
Here's the video that caught my attention and best displays my style of playing and how I define "Jazz" in terms of what I like to listen to. I play 100% finger style using the fleshy tips and no nails. I have a very light touch.

I own a1994 L-5 CES 1952 RI and a few Sadowsky Archtop's and solid body's. I typically either play these through a Henriksen Bud 10 or Komet Songwriter. One of the solid body Sadowsky's I own is the T Style with Humbucker pups. Shown below.




This one has 11 gauge round wounds with a solid G. My L-5 has 12 gauge rounds with a wound G while my other archtops use 11 gauge rounds with a wound G.

However, in the video I attached here, the gentleman is getting that "Classic Tele" sound which even my Sad T cannot duplicate. Hence my original post. BTW, here's my L-5 which I dearly love!



The amps I mainly play through are a Henriksen Bud Ten and a Komet Songwriter.
I think that's enough information.

Anyway, I was overwhelmed by all of the T choices out there now and just needed a little help. In the end, it may not even be worth the investment. Thanks again!

[2bornot2bop]

Never!

[jazzgtrl4]

Just put a Lollar Charlie Christian pickup set in my Sadowsky T-Style.. I used to have a Lindy Fralin Unbucker and one of this blade pickups in the bridge. it was really uneven and not matched, dont know what happened when i was picking that out.

Anyway did a total switchup and got the Lollars, wow now i can use all positions and it sounds great. That front CC is killer, i should start bringing this thing to gigs.

[Little Jay]

Fair enough.
Here's the video that caught my attention and best displays my style of playing and how I define "Jazz" in terms of what I like to listen to. I play 100% finger style using the fleshy tips and no nails. I have a very light touch.

I own a1994 L-5 CES 1952 RI and a few Sadowsky Archtop's and solid body's. I typically either play these through a Henriksen Bud 10 or Komet Songwriter. One of the solid body Sadowsky's I own is the T Style with Humbucker pups. Shown below.




This one has 11 gauge round wounds with a solid G. My L-5 has 12 gauge rounds with a wound G while my other archtops use 11 gauge rounds with a wound G.

However, in the video I attached here, the gentleman is getting that "Classic Tele" sound which even my Sad T cannot duplicate. Hence my original post. BTW, here's my L-5 which I dearly love!



The amps I mainly play through are a Henriksen Bud Ten and a Komet Songwriter.
I think that's enough information.

Anyway, I was overwhelmed by all of the T choices out there now and just needed a little help. In the end, it may not even be worth the investment. Thanks again!

How about a tele with a Lollar 50ies underwound P90 and a 24.75” scale neck? ;-)

[2-5Guy]

Just put a Lollar Charlie Christian pickup set in my Sadowsky T-Style.. I used to have a Lindy Fralin Unbucker and one of this blade pickups in the bridge. it was really uneven and not matched, dont know what happened when i was picking that out.

Anyway did a total switchup and got the Lollars, wow now i can use all positions and it sounds great. That front CC is killer, i should start bringing this thing to gigs.

Good point!
I'm uncomfortable with doing any pup swapping myself. I'm sure Roger wouldn't mind doing it for a price of course. Something to think about though. I do really like the sound of it now. Ideally, I guess I'd like to cover both bases. Thanks for the suggestion.

PS - I like your T there!
And truth be told, I much prefer six saddles as opposed to three

[jazzgtrl4]

Good point!
I'm uncomfortable with doing any pup swapping myself. I'm sure Roger wouldn't mind doing it for a price of course. Something to think about though. I do really like the sound of it now. Ideally, I guess I'd like to cover both bases. Thanks for the suggestion.

PS - I like your T there!
And truth be told, I much prefer six saddles as opposed to three

thanks, i cant do pickup swaps either, i had a luthier do it plus i wanted the CC to be attached directly to the body instead of the pickgaurd, so i wasn't going to attempt that.

I like these Sadowsky teles, love the weight, belly cut etc. i like the 6 saddle as well.

[markb]

IMO you can't go wrong with a Suhr Classic. Sound, fit and finish. Superb necks and you'll get that the "classic Tele sound" with the single coils and barrels. Here's my recently acquired Custom and I couldn't be happier.
I too, play through a Henriksen Bud10 and a few different Fender BF's. Does not disappoint.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Chris Forshage makes a beautiful T type. He’ll spec it as you wish, and he’s a really wonderful luthier. My regular gigging T is the Forshage design made in China and sold as a Raines. The design and woodwork are almost identical to the Ts Chris makes in Austin, but the hardware and refinements are much higher quality on the ones Chris makes. The Raines was $1k less when I last checked, but either version is fantastic for jazz.

Sperzel lockers are stock. I swapped the stock “builder’s quality” humbuckers (cheap Chinese units that sell for about $25 / pair) for Lace Alumitones and the rough bridge / TP unit for a Hipshot. I replaced the cheap crap plastic ferrules with good metal ones, and set it up for 12-52 Chromes plus a 75 Chrome 7th. I think the Raines is only available as a 7, but Chris will make a 6 or 7 as you wish.

If I were replacing mine or starting over, I’d spend the extra $ for one made by Chris. But after about $400 in upgrades, the Raines is excellent for jazz as well as blues and fusion. At today’s prices, that’s a total cost of $1300 plus whatever it will cost if you have to have a tech swap the pickups, bridge / TP etc. The Forshage build was about $2k when I last inquired about 2 years ago.

[Al Haig]

How about a tele with a Lollar 50ies underwound P90 and a 24.75” scale neck? ;-)

That tele partscaster came out incredibly. All the mixed and matched parts ended up with 1 nice unique sound. Probably one of the cooler solid body jazz guitars I've heard.

[JCat]

Fair enough.
Here's the video that caught my attention and best displays my style of playing and how I define "Jazz" in terms of what I like to listen to. I play 100% finger style using the fleshy tips and no nails. I have a very light touch.

The amps I mainly play through are a Henriksen Bud Ten and a Komet Songwriter.
I think that's enough information.

Anyway, I was overwhelmed by all of the T choices out there now and just needed a little help. In the end, it may not even be worth the investment. Thanks again!

Very good,

Then I recommend the following spec for you:

Vintage 3 saddle bridge, body string through (You like the 6-saddle concept and already got your bases covered, so this time you may like to explore the classic 3-saddle bridge. You'll then have the option to compare different barrel saddles, like for example compensated saddles as shown in the video.)

Neck: 25.5" scale, 9.5" radius, head adjusted truss rod. (The guitar shown in the video got heel adjustment, but I wouldn't recommend it. When playing Jazz harmony across the entire range of the fretboard, the guitar requires precision intonation and therefore has to be re-adjusted once in a while. In particular it's important to re-adjust the neck when exploring different string set configurations.)

Pickups: Traditional Telecaster pickup set like shown in the video, Alnico, medium/low output, flat poles, carefully adjusted for string-to-string output balance. Traditional wiring.

Ergonomics: In particular you like to verify neck profile and weight balance. You may also consider fret profile and nut width. (Preferably try before you buy).