Jensen P10R vs the newer P10R-F

[Grigoris]

Thinking of swapping the speaker on my SuperChamp XD combo (10")

The Jensen P10R has been recommended by among others thomann, but I read that the P10R-F is mellower so I'm not sure?
Anyone has tried both or has any preference of either one? Is the P10R made in Italy too shrill?

[Gitterbug]

Hi Grigoris! I only have experience with the P10R-F. While it sounds very Fender-y indeed, I think the bottom end could handle more power without breaking. It's interesting to note that Fender puts the ceramic-magnet variant to their Tonemaster and 65 Reverb Princetons - a speaker that retails for under 40€ in 1-1.6KEUR combos. The OEM price must be a fraction. Even the hand-wired Custom Princeton sports the P10R, not the F version. About a decade ago Eminence's Raging Cajun was a very popular swap for the SCXD. I would also look at Jensen's Blackbird AlNiCo, which isn't that more expensive than the P10R-F.

Edit: The Blackbird actually seems to be 50% more expensive than the P10Rs. You find it in Mesa Boogie's smaller California combo. Fender Tonemaster Super Reverb has 4 x P10R. Looks like Fender doesn't use the F version at all.

[Grigoris]

Thanks for your reply, Gitterbug

I took the amp to a jam with an enthusiastic drummer and the poor thing was struggling to stay clean. I am not sure that a speaker swap could give me more clean headroom, but I would like to give this great little amp the better speaker that I think it deserves.

[Gitterbug]

A point to consider is speaker sensitivity. Ragin Cajun 100 dB (and frequency range starts from 70 Hz), Blackbird 96.4 dB, P10R 94.2 dB and P10R-F only 92.5 dB. The latter needs a multiple of watts vs. the Eminence for the same loudness. I don't think your 15 W amp can cause the Eminence to break.

[Herbie]

There is a video in YT where a studio guitarist presents his SuperChamp with a Celestion Gold. Superb sound, really an update from the stock speaker!

It is 100dB too, it would make the amp noticeably louder.

When I had that amp for some years it had Raging Cajun. I got rid of it very fast, didn’t like its mid emphasis at all. But many like them.

[Grigoris]

One point that I can't fully grasp: speaker sensitivity means the speaker is going to be less loud on the same volume settings at the amp, compared to another speaker? Like for instance, in my case if I want to replace the stock speaker with the P10R-F which has lower sensitivity, does that mean that whereas my stock speaker was breaking up at 7 when playing loud, the P10R-F will break up even earlier?? If that's the case it's absolutely a deal breaker for me, I need the amp to stay clean when I play at jams with loud drummers and horn sections.

The Celestion 10 Gold costs more than the price of the amp when I bought it used! But do the 100db mean it will stay clean in loud volumes?

[Gitterbug]

The more sensitive, the louder the speaker is. Sensitivity is measured in decibels at a distance of one meter and with one watt of amp power. So 92dB from P10R-F and 100dB from Celestion Gold or Ragin Cajun. That is a significant, clearly audible difference. Any speaker will buzz and break when driven to the limits. I don't know the specs of your amp's stock speaker but am pretty sure the P10R-F would take you in the wrong direction in terms of staying clean. And yes, Celestion Gold is really expensive. The Jensen Blackbird AlNiCo costs a hundred less and comes very close in tone. The new 50W Jensen Silverbird sounds almost the same but weighs half a kilo more due to its ceramic magnet. This applies to the Ragin Cajun as well. Considering the value of your amp, the Silverbird or a secondhand Ragin Cajun might the most sensible options.

[Grigoris]

I read that others have found the Ragin Cajun to be too "nasal"? I don't know, I'm quite intrigued by giving the Alnico a try. The Blackbird can be found on Thomman for 157 EUR, and I have a 100 EUR voucher as a Xmas gift that I still haven't used. Should I go for it then? (I hate returning items)

[Gitterbug]

Sounds very good. Go for it.