Affordable, Practical, Vintage Tube Amp

[ewall]

On the advice of an amp tech, to bypass the bright cap on my Fender Deluxe Reverb, with the guitar plugged in to the tremolo side and the volume knob on the guitar set at near 0, I turned the amp volume up to 10 and then very gingerly advanced the guitar volume knob. It worked in a small practice room though I still sent the amp off for servicing.

[BBGuitar]

I am retired after almost 40 years of service as an electronics technician at one of the world's largest research centers.

Tube anything is neither affordable nor practical.

I once put a solid-state Bass 65 (cut down to fit) in a deluxe cabinet. From a distance it looked like a black face deluxe.

I got lots of comments on how good those old tube amps sound.

[omphalopsychos]

Bc they sound better and feel better. I have a gig tonight at a place with on site parking. No way I'm not taking my 64 vibrolux reverb. (I pack a milkman head for backup that I can plug into the VR cab if anything goes wrong.)

Update. Took the big amp. It didn't fuck up. Yeah tubes are the best.

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[Alder Statesman]

On the advice of an amp tech, to bypass the bright cap on my Fender Deluxe Reverb, with the guitar plugged in to the tremolo side and the volume knob on the guitar set at near 0, I turned the amp volume up to 10 and then very gingerly advanced the guitar volume knob. It worked in a small practice room though I still sent the amp off for servicing.

I like following this technique, but seldom get the volume to ten on the amp. I crank the amp until the noise floor gets noticeable then back it off the amp a hair then set guitar volume to suit the room.

[DawgBone]

I am retired after almost 40 years of service as an electronics technician at one of the world's largest research centers.

Tube anything is neither affordable nor practical.

Your claim is at odds with the number of guys in my area still choosing to gig tube amps.

[jads57]

Guitarists have never been a very practical group of musicians. Probably me being one of the worst!
Saying that, I quit using tubes almost 15 years ago, and haven’t been happier!

Remember technology has improved dramatically,especially in the digital realm. Now to the point it’s cheaper and better in almost every way as well.
Just look at the Tonex One pedal and see for yourself!

[Stringswinger]

I am retired after almost 40 years of service as an electronics technician at one of the world's largest research centers.

Tube anything is neither affordable nor practical.

I once put a solid-state Bass 65 (cut down to fit) in a deluxe cabinet. From a distance it looked like a black face deluxe.

I got lots of comments on how good those old tube amps sound.

I gave up on tubes for the most part (one of my 4 amps uses a single 12AX7 tube in the preamp) mainly for issues of weight and reliability. I like the practicality of today's solid state amps and I do not like the quality of today's tubes compared to the tubes of yesterday. But I will admit that guitarists who are willing to be impractical, and who are willing to spend more than they have to, there is a little bit of tone magic that only a tube amp can deliver.

[Phil59]

Good compared to what other amp at practice volumes though? JMHO on every blackface Fender I've owned or tried, I don't think they sound all that good below about 4 on the volume dial compared to what they sound like at 4 or more, and that might be too loud for some guys when talking about a Twin.

I totally agree on magic #4 on blackface deluxe reverbs and pro reverbs. Is that true of silverface versions too? Are silver supers and twins as loud as the blackfaces?

[frabarmus]

I am retired after almost 40 years of service as an electronics technician at one of the world's largest research centers.

Tube anything is neither affordable nor practical.

I once put a solid-state Bass 65 (cut down to fit) in a deluxe cabinet. From a distance it looked like a black face deluxe.

I got lots of comments on how good those old tube amps sound.

You sly old fox!!

[DawgBone]

I totally agree on magic #4 on blackface deluxe reverbs and pro reverbs. Is that true of silverface versions too? Are silver supers and twins as loud as the blackfaces?

I couldn't tell you the answer to your question cause while I own SF Twins I always have them blackfaced as soon as I get them.

[Cunamara]

Your 59 1/2 pound Twin really isn't bad considering how much punch a Twin can deliver.

I suspect very few forum members and few jazz musicians need that much punch anymore. Most jazz gigs are happening in small venues like a coffee shop where you might crack the volume on a Twin to 1.5 or 2 before people are complaining it's too loud. Most of us are not playing in loud rowdy bars where we need to be heard over the crowd. Well, most of us are probably not playing out at all. I haven't played a gig needing anything louder than my tweed Deluxe in probably 10 years; the one exception to that miked all the instruments and amps and ran them through a PA. If you're playing blues or rock gigs, it might be another story but I haven't played one of those in even longer and I am more than passing certain that I never will.

[Cunamara]

I totally agree on magic #4 on blackface deluxe reverbs and pro reverbs. Is that true of silverface versions too? Are silver supers and twins as loud as the blackfaces?

At 4 on the volume knob on my silverface Pro Reverb, it's already pushing into having some dirt. I would say my tweed Deluxe at 3 is about as loud and clean as my Pro Reverb is at 4. Apples and oranges, of course; the PR has 2 12" speakers (JBL's) and the Deluxe has a single 12 (Cannabis Rex). And then there is the issue of 6L6 versus 6V6. I think even at the same volumes the PR has- I'm not sure how to describe it, most folks here probably know what I mean, but I think it's due to having 2 12" speakers in that size cabinet moving more air and interacting with each other. It is part of the "magic" that people often refer to with the Twin and PR type amps.

I bet I could knock 20 pounds off of the PR with a set of Jensen neo speakers. Those JBL's are enormously weighty. If I could get it down to 50 pounds, that would be a lot more practical.

[Cunamara]

Your claim is at odds with the number of guys in my area still choosing to gig tube amps.

Not sure how meaningful that is. You can also find a lot of guys dedicated to the superiority of carburetors.

[DawgBone]

Not sure how meaningful that is. You can also find a lot of guys dedicated to the superiority of carburetors.

Except of every act I've seen in ten years locally only two were using digital rigs and only one was using a solid state quilter so I don't see it as a good analogy.

[rpjazzguitar]

.

I had a Twin in the 70's. JBLs. My back is nearly better. A couple more years of PT should do it.

But, I can't imagine needing an amp that loud. If you used it to be heard - loud - in the back of a big crowded room, the stage volume would be unworkable.

If you have to be that loud, there ought to be a PA and then you have options. Mic a small amp, or run something direct if you can get your sound that way.

[Woodstove]

1962 random navy B15. My bass playing son needed room in his Brooklyn apt having had a baby girl 3 months ago and returned it to me after 10 years. It is a wonderful jazz amp! I join with those who prefer the sound and feel of tube amps. I have a milkman 100 and tonemaster deluxe/twin (later for keyboard) and grab that TM Deluxe for casual gigs but I'll bring a Victoria 200112 tweed deluxe (blues/rock, can do jazz) and the B15 to my next show.

[rpjazzguitar]

Solid state amps sound a lot better than tubes, up a long flight of stairs.

On the ground floor, of the two best guitar sounds I ever heard live one was a Twin and the other was a solid state amp through a solid state powered speaker and some kind of box to warm it up. What did they have in common? Great player and quality archtop.

[DawgBone]

I had a Twin in the 70's. JBLs. My back is nearly better. A couple more years of PT should do it.

But, I can't imagine needing an amp that loud. If you used it to be heard - loud - in the back of a big crowded room, the stage volume would be unworkable.

If you have to be that loud, there ought to be a PA and then you have options. Mic a small amp, or run something direct if you can get your sound that way.

I've clocked a JBL D series loaded Twin with transients as high 129dB and I have an Emi PF-350 loaded 72 that maxed at 136dB with sustained 126 and higher readings one meter from the speakers. I have some Force 12's I think I might put a meter on tonight. The kid has an OSHA app on his phone with the meter they use for gov work. Playing maxed through anything has meant additional amp maintenance and I blew many D series speakers to the point I quit reconing and sold them all. Only K's will take the abuse long termand I have a blown K in a box now, lol.

I play that loud cause I like to, that's the way the stuff I play was meant to be played. Loud drummer. Dynamics. 75dB to 130 in the span of a measure. The owner at my monthly residency has encouraged me to do so because it attracts street traffic and the venue is a large courtyard. Most of other places I can play reasonably loud, but not cranked Twin loud.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Maybe our definition of compact is different

Ummmm - ya got that right!

[DawgBone]

Ummmm - ya got that right!

When that Henriksen can hang with a Twin volume wise I will graciously concede your point haha.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

When that Henriksen can hang with a Twin volume wise I will graciously concede your point haha.

Plug it into a 2x12 loaded with efficient speakers and it probably will, since it makes 120W RMS. Now I'm curious, so I'll plug the Twin's speaker cable into the Blu and see what happens.

But the topic was how compact an amp is, and power has nothing to do with that. My Boogie 1x12 with EVM was louder than any of my Twins ever was. It was an honest 100 W RMS and it was certainly more compact than any Twin. A Boogie is 18 x 18.75 x 10.5" and a '65 BF Twin is 19.87" x 26.5 x 10.375"". A Boogie is also lighter. My 22 pound Quilter OD202 in its BlockDock 12HD with a 300W Celestion BN12-300S neo will blow the doors off a Twin, and it's smaller than a Boogie Mark.

We all know how much you love Twins. I love Twins too. But let's be realistic - they're not compact by any stretch of the imagination, and there are many other amps that sound as good and get as loud. You may not like them, and that's OK - but they're still that good and many serious players agree. Start with the Quilter artists' roster. Top players like Mark Whitfield (now sadly gone), Elvin Bishop, Rich Severson, Howard Alden, Doyle Bramhall, John Pisano, Bruce Forman, Gilad Hekselman, David Hidalgo, Tim Lerch, Vernon Reid, Albert Lee, Deke Dickerson and many others who could use whatvever amp they want play Quilter. Some of these (like many others on the full roster) play seriously loud rock and blues. If they thought they needed a Twin to do what they do, they'd be using Twins.

Twins are wonderful amps. If you're happy with them, we're all glad and want you to enjoy them. But show those of us who prefer alternatives the same courtesy and stop badmouthing anything that's not a Twin. We get your point.

[DawgBone]

Plug it into a 2x12 loaded with efficient speakers and it probably will, since it makes 120W RMS. Now I'm curious, so I'll plug the Twin's speaker cable into the Blu and see what happens.

But the topic was how compact an amp is, and power has nothing to do with that. My Boogie 1x12 with EVM was louder than any of my Twins ever was. It was an honest 100 W RMS and it was certainly more compact than any Twin. A Boogie is 18 x 18.75 x 10.5" and a '65 BF Twin is 19.87" x 26.5 x 10.375"". A Boogie is also lighter.

Speaker efficiency will play into the results I would think. If you have a dB meter or phone app with one that might be some interesting data. The boogie is more compact but it only has one 12" EVM which is more efficient than something like a Jensen. I still can't think of a 2x12 100 watt tube combo that is more compact than a Twin. My Force 12 loaded Twin maxed at 135dB transients, just checked it a few minutes ago.

[Tal_175]

Good compared to what other amp at practice volumes though? JMHO on every blackface Fender I've owned or tried, I don't think they sound all that good below about 4 on the volume dial compared to what they sound like at 4 or more, and that might be too loud for some guys when talking about a Twin.

Compared to smaller practice amps at low volumes. It's true that bigger amps sound their best at higher volumes but that doesn't necessarily mean practice amps sound better at practice volumes. You do get punchier response from smaller speakers at lower volumes.

[Cunamara]

Except of every act I've seen in ten years locally only two were using digital rigs and only one was using a solid state quilter so I don't see it as a good analogy.

I should fess up that I have two tube amps (tweed Deluxe and Pro Reverb) and two solid state amps (AI Clarus 2r and Polytone Baby Taurus). I rarely use the PR (years since I've turned it on) and use the Deluxe daily. Use of the SS amps is just occasional. So I guess I vote with my feet. I don't currently have a car with a carburetor, but my wife does (1972 VW bus).

[Cunamara]

I've clocked a JBL D series loaded Twin with transients as high 129dB and I have an Emi PF-350 loaded 72 that maxed at 136dB with sustained 126 and higher readings one meter from the speakers. I have some Force 12's I think I might put a meter on tonight. The kid has an OSHA app on his phone with the meter they use for gov work. Playing maxed through anything has meant additional amp maintenance and I blew many D series speakers to the point I quit reconing and sold them all. Only K's will take the abuse long termand I have a blown K in a box now, lol.

I play that loud cause I like to, that's the way the stuff I play was meant to be played. Loud drummer. Dynamics. 75dB to 130 in the span of a measure. The owner at my monthly residency has encouraged me to do so because it attracts street traffic and the venue is a large courtyard. Most of other places I can play reasonably loud, but not cranked Twin loud.

You are no doubt aware that your volume needs are the exception, not the norm in jazz in general and in the forum. Hence why there aren't so many takers on the Twin things.

I'm 65 now, I'd like to be able to hear without hearing aids when I'm 85.