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This is regarding S16 with a floater or single mounted p.u. I have 2 at the present, one is acoustic and one has had mods.This(with mods) is one of my favorite guitars and has great acoustic voice and stunning thru mounted pickup I find the other extrememely responsive acoustically but very feedback prone amplified. The one I play the most has had "sound posts" installed at the bridge and center. They add quite a bit of weight compared to the fully acoustic and although the acoustic tone is quite good its acoustic volume is much reduced. It is less prone to feedback and amazingly the plugged in tone sounds very woody and acoustic with exceptional tone. My question to other owners is, are yours feedback prone? Can it be played unplugged at performance level?
I ask because Im considering removing the posts from the modified one as I prefer its playability and since Im no longer playing out feedback not really a problem but I still play plugged in much of the time in the studio. Heres the rub...The guitar really sounds fantastic plugged in and records beautifully my manager (and audience of 1, wife) says dont fix what aint broke (this women bought me a 175 51yrs ago that I still have so I highly respect her opinion.) I say "but it might sound even better" and she says "than what?" So to summerise. Do you other S16 owners love them for their acoustic propertys alone or do you generally play them amplified? Do you ever gig with yours in combo or big band? Is it possible its plugged in tone is "better" with the posts? Also taking them out is risky and I cant find a luthier interested in helping me figure this out. Any opinion appreciated (leaning more towards agreeing with corporate)
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12-31-2024 04:49 PM
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I have a '97 one and my answers are :
Originally Posted by Rickco
Yes !
No, but it sounds lovely unplugged at bedroom level.
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I have a H575 Custom with a floating pickup (I refer to it as a “business casual Sweet 16”). It is a feedback monster. Sounds lovely at home but I can’t take it out on any gigs because of the feedback.
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Had the same problem with one I had back in 2010, a friend of mine recommended using F hole plugs, and problem was solved! Years later I discovered that there are pedals that you can use, that will focus on the frequency creating the feedback and with filter it out. Originally Posted by andrew
Cheers,
Arnie..
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I have had a number of Sweet 16s over the years. The thing with Heritage is that they used to have a lot of variability in the builds, commonly due to customer or dealer specs. Some examples of this are a build for Ted Nugent in which Ted sent a scan of his hand in order to help with the neck carving. I saw the scan. Some have come to the factory when the neck is shaped in order to get the right feel. I have seen this. Dealers often described what their customer wanted in many parameters. These specs were written on a tag attached to the guitar. So it is fair to say there is inconsistency in builds.
Jay Wolfe seemed to have general preferences for guitars he would buy for his store. There was a Wolfe rack at Heritage at the time.
The default build of a Sweet 16 was an X-braced single floating pickup. This was viewed as an acoustic guitar in the same vein as the Gibson JS was. The tops were thin. Feedback had to be managed. Fretboard inlays were like the Super 400 but could be absent or styled different ways. Most had Florentine cutaways but not all. Some had one or two mounted pickups with thicker tops.
The Sweet 16 was considered a "premium build", not that they used those terms AFAIK. They received top carving attention like the Super Eagle, Golden Eagle, Super Kenny Burrell, American Eagle and Johnny Smith.
The light top and floating pickup are asking for feedback.
I played out with a ES-175. It took a little thought to prevent feedback. These solid top Heritages are harder to work with. I have had H-575s with two mounted pickups and parallel bracing and found feedback manageable. I also have an older Gibson Howard Roberts, which can be difficult with feedback.
My advice with older Heritages is to know as much about the individual instrument as you can before buying. The builds are not random, but often there are customer or dealer preferences. I cannot fault Heritage for having a thinner top and lighter bracing on an instrument ordered with a floater.
Here are some Golden Eagle examples. The first pic shows our old friend Patrick's Golden Eagles. In that photo, the guitar on the right was built for him long ago exactly the way Patrick wanted it. It's light and very nice acoustically. The guitar on the left is parallel braced, has a thicker top, and a 1 3/4" nut. I don't know about the middle one. The second pic was one of two ordered by Jay Wolfe with a thicker top and 1 3/4" nut. The bracing is shown next to it on the right. It is less feedback prone. This is my H-575. It is most definitely built as an electric archtop. The pic on the far right shows the thick top and heavy bracing.
Again, these are not random or frivolous builds. Nowadays, Heritage may be more consistent and less flexible. I'm not sure. But I hope this overview helps those who are considering buying an older Heritage.
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Your wife is sensible: "dont fix what aint broke." Originally Posted by Rickco
Until a month ago I had a Sweet 16 with a Kent Armstrong floater. Best guitar I ever had. I used it for a long time in a big band and really liked playing it. I sold it as part of what I'm calling my pre-estate selloff so my kids won't have to deal with it (though an estate sale is a ways off, as far as I can tell). I only say this to indicate that I've had experience with the model.
You say the guitar sounds good as is. To make a profound alteration to it will change the way it sounds in a way that's not easy to reverse. You also said that you're having difficulty finding a luthier to do the removal - imagine trying to find a luthier to re-install the soundposts if you find out you don't like the change in sound.
Leave it alone.
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First, thanks to all for your input. "d" you played yours in a BB so Im assuming you didnt have a feedback problem. Mine has a mounted pickup which is what I wanted (i have acoustic GE and spruce top 575) Ive included a photo of mine. Its a very special '90 1 off. Ren set it up but didnt know about the pickup mod (originally floater). Im happy with the mounted p.u. but as Marty pointed out these were the days of Heritages best guitars and even with the molestation you can tell it was lightly carved and (most likely) had a fine acoustic voice. I got this from J and he pleked it before sending it out so needless to say (im a heritage neck fan) it plays beautifully. Sean Lombardozzi suggested the back should come off so the work could done cleanly and bracing etc could be inspected and return it to a "more" acousically live instrument. As you can see from the picture this is a special build (5 ply binding on f hole!!! one off headstock) which is why Im considering having this done (if I can find someone to do it) I wouldnt even consider this if it was a "stock" model but originally this had to be one of their finest customs. Ren told me that normally on something this custom they would know who it was for but this one no one knew who it was for. So this is why Im considering this, although it truly sounds great plugged in I cant help but wonder how it would sound with the posts out and because its special it should be put back closer to its original intent. I should add that I dont care about resale value, Im pretty sure if this was left as built J would have not parted with it for less than twice or more what he sold it to me for. Very much still "on the fence" with this, check out the picture. Yeah, I know I know sideways pictures suck but I cant seem to get em upright...Im playin the age card here Originally Posted by dconeill
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That's a beauty!!!
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Ren Wall told me long ago he got a Heritage Johnny Smith and it's as good a sounding an instrument as he's ever played. I asked him what he did to it. He explained that there was nothing special done at all. He got the guitar to put hardware on it and adjust the neck and bridge. He surprised that it sounded like it did, and he bought it. He's gigged with it quite a bit and it has a rim crack from some mishap, but it still sounded great. This is by a guy who was the Gibson artist liaison for years. He spoke of how Gibson would buy two plane tickets, one for him and one for the guitar, when he delivered a special order to a namesake artist. The point being Ren knows guitars.
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Marty, you know you have the one I want! That said what would you suggest in my situation? It really does sound great plugged in, Im retired and not gigging but I play in the studio every day so gets lots of play time. It weighs 7lbs due to the 4 sound posts. Im pretty sure Sean would do the work and a I own one of his guitars (my favorite) so I know his work,per your referall Ive checked with Gary H (hes closer) but he stopped comunincating. My hope would be that it would be a great acoustic for the couch and informal jams and be about a pound lighter. My thinking is if it sounds good with about a pound of wood connecting the front and back plates it would have to sound "better?" without them or mabey thats why it sounds good? All Im looking for is some encouragement fom a luthier or a definate "its a bad idea" My wife wishes to thank all who agreed with her "dont fix what aint broke". I do also its just that I think it is broke and could be improved by removing he posts with the back off. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
Thanks to all
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If they are truly posts glued in or simply wedged, it seems like it would not be too difficult to remove them, but I'm not sure.
Rob Doolittle is an extraordinary luthier in Kalamazoo. He has his own shop but is a high level employee at Heritage. You can contact him for advice. [email protected]
Gary Hines is superb as well. I'm not sure what happened to him.
I had an older Gibson archtop from an early run of the Howard Roberts Artist. I had a sound post put in that simply was wedged. It was easy to reach in and pull it out. That won't be as simply with the Sweet 16. But somehow the posts got in there, so I'm hopeful they can be removed. If they are not glued in or braced somehow, they may just pop out. But caution is needed.
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Thanks for that info Marty, I contacted Heritage and got an email saying he'd be in touch. I also talked with Sean L again and we agreed if we were to move forward he would remove the back and be able to do a really clean job. You can see the guitar is really "sweet" and even with 4 large soundposts sounds really good with mounted pickup. I think what you said about that era of highly custom guitars being acoustically carved is very true for this guitar, even unplugged you can hear "that" tonality. Im very much looking forward to talking with Rob about it, having already spoken with Ren who originally set it up 35yrs ago and still remembered it. This is my last guitar investment and Im very happy with what I have but this baby is beggin for some love...I cant help myself,
P.S. Marty, do you know if Rob was involved with the D'Angelico builds?
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