New headphones and a lesson learned.

[Jim Soloway]

I've felt like I've been going in circles recording for a really long time. Several people on this forum have made the point that in a room that has not been properly treated, it doesn't really matter what monitors you use. With remarkable stubbornness, I always thought I could work my way around this but in the end I have finally surrendered. I have a pair of really first class Genelec monitors and I still can't figure out what I'm doing. So I did a bunch of research about recording and mixing with headphones and I ended up buying a pair of highly recommended Sennheiser HD 560S open back headphones. (When I play at home, I'm going through headphones 98% of the time anyway so a nice pair of headphones were easy to justify.) And the 560S is being replaced by the HD400 so there are all sorts of deep discounts on the 560S.

I'm starting to record seriously with them and it seems to me that it's going way better. I'm checking my results on some other speakers and the car and it just seems a lot closer to where I want to be. This is something that I just recorded today. After checking it on some other speakers it seems about right.

[Boze]

Sounds good! I'm not a reverb guy but I think it's a smart move to upgrade your headphones like that.

I recently upgraded from some old AT-M50fs to a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 700 PRO X and, as I'm sure you can attest, it's the sort of thing you do and then think "why didn't I do this years ago?"

Acoustic panels are a good idea too though. You can make your own with a plywood frame filled with rockwool and covered in any breathable fabric. Even the cheap foam stuff is better than nothing.

[Alter]

Open back headphones are more comfortable than closed back, but can be a bit prone to leakage when recording if using mics. After all these modelers i have gone through, i think the speakers (or headphones) are more important than the actual effect unit! Good speakers and everything will sound good, bad speakers and everything will sound mediocre. Or when using modelers, you might think you dislike modelers when you actually dislike playing through monitors instead of guitar speakers..

I personally prefer in ear monitors to headphones, i find them a lot more comfortable over time, you can choose a pair with good bass response if that's your thing, and they can also be used at gigs, to listen to music, are easier to carry, etc. But for me mixing has always been easier, faster and with better results through near field monitors, rather than headphones. Even in bad rooms you can download an app or plugin and find out if there are problem frequencies in your mixes caused by the room.

In both cases headphones or monitors, once you learn how they sound you 're good to go.

[sgosnell]

I have a pair of 560S headphones that I received as a gift a few years back, and I like them a lot. They're the first open-back headphones I've used, and that format works much better for me. I have rather large ears, which stick out from my head, and most headphones rub and mash on them, causing discomfort. These are deep enough to be comfortable, and they sound pretty good. I'm not an audiosnob, so for me good enough is good enough, but the 560S headphones are better than good enough. I also use higher-end Bluetooth earbuds, mostly in the gym, and while they sound almost as good, the bass just isn't quite as good, and they're a pain to find, remove from the case, and insert into my ears. The Sennheisers are usually within reach, so plug and play. I use them a lot for listening to music on my laptop, while my wife watches TV in the same room. I prefer not to bother her. The earbuds are quieter, having noise suppression built in, but the headphones are good enough, even though open-back. I don't record, but if I did I think I would give them a try.

[arnie65]

Sounds good! I'm not a reverb guy but I think it's a smart move to upgrade your headphones like that.

I recently upgraded from some old AT-M50fs to a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 700 PRO X and, as I'm sure you can attest, it's the sort of thing you do and then think "why didn't I do this years ago?"

Acoustic panels are a good idea too though. You can make your own with a plywood frame filled with rockwool and covered in any breathable fabric. Even the cheap foam stuff is better than nothing.

Funny you mentioned that, I've just upgraded my old AT-M50X to Beyerdynamic's 770 PRO, I couldn't be happier... Now I noticed how bass heavy the AT's were.



Arnie...

[Ukena]

I also have a pair of Genelec monitors – they're an older version of the 8010A. I don't have a treated room, either, but since they're near-field monitors, I have them pretty close. They're about 6 feet apart, about 3 feet from my ears, level with my ears, and pointed at them, in a pretty small room. I enjoy using them for mixing. I always check the mix with headphones, both open- and closed-back, and don't really change anything.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

The AKG 701 is another really fine 'phone. I've been using AKG701Qs since they came out, and they're still among the best for mixing and monitoring. The Q was made to Quincy Jones' specs and is a bit cleaner and more neutral than the standard 701 K model. All of the 701s have very realistic bass that goes deep enough but is not at all bloated or exaggerated. and they're very comfortable for extended wear. I think they've been discontinued, but I see them new on the web every once in a while for about half of their original price (which was $500 when I last saw them available from AKG). They're well worth a look.

[Jim Soloway]

Open back headphones are more comfortable than closed back, but can be a bit prone to leakage when recording if using mics.

The only time I use mics is for the rare occasion when I do voiceover for a video. Everything else I record direct.

[skykomishone]

Sounds great Jim!
I bought a pair a while back when JoeD recommended them. I really like them. Sennheiser make some great products. But it's not the headphones doing the playing. That's you, and like I said, it sounds great.

[RJVB]

Sennheiser make some great products.

That they do! I've rather been using open-back Grado on-ear phones the past few years which (also) sound amazing and have such incredible spatiality that I've been fooled more than once thinking that something from a soundtrack actually came from in the house. That also underlines their weak point: your entourage hears what you're listening to, and you hear almost everything else they also hear.

Recording myself with them as exclusive wouldn't even be possible so after researching a couple of alternatives in the budget I allowed myself to spend (including a great looking Koss studio model) I ended up with an HD280 Pro. It's probably a bit more neutral sounding than my Grado (I find it really hard to A/B headphones that don't put me off at once) and despite being closed-back its spatiality is almost as good. And it has very decent passive sound insulation.
Sadly I couldn't find the fur-like cloth-covered cushions that I prefer for this model, but I found a pair covered with another kind of cloth. That's really something I can recommend over (at least fake) leather cushions if you plan to wear these things a bit longer.

[benhatchins]

Thanks for sharing

[pingu]

Hi Jim ,
yes I’ve used them and they’re great

I like Senn headphones generally
comfortable neutral light

My current faves are HD480
but yours are great too

[Eugle]

I had a similar moment of clarity when I realized my untreated room was sabotaging everything. I also switched to headphones and it really helped. I use Sennheisers HD490 now, but before that, I tried Raycons. Decent for casual listening, but not for mixing. Their support was okay. I had to dig around for the raycon phone number when one bud died early.