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Hi guys,
I'm looking to get my first archtop.
I recognise non archtops can achieve a 'jazzy' sound but I guess I like the aesthetic. I'm a beginner to jazz guitar and got some funds around $1600 ++ for this.
1. Happy to get the new PM3C (I like Pat's music) but natural amber is not in stock so I can be patient to wait.
2. Happy to consider an Eastman but wonder if there's a good model to choose.
3. Happy to be adventurous and try Yunzhi guitars and I've established contact with Lora and was looking at the electric guitar - China - Manufacturer - Jazz Guitar
But overwhelmed with the options presented,
Eg " what size you want? 17inch or 16inch or 18inch please?
The details of guitar is nut width: 45mm, body depth, 70mm 16inch or 17inch, 80MM is for 18mm. Scale length is 635mm, fretboard radius 12inch or 16inch, neck profile is C or D profile.
X brace or parallel brace?
Anyone has any encouraging suggestions, opinions please do share!
rou
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12-21-2024 04:14 AM
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Any of the options you listed might work well for you. Are there any shops nearby for you to test drive any archtops or hollowbodies? The shape of the neck, size of the body, electric va acoustic tone are best evaluated in person.
If you're just starting out, you might shop for a laminate hollowbody rather than spending your max budget right away.
I've owned and sold two different jazz guitars in the past few years because I ultimately decided they were too neck heavy for me. The second of these was an Eastman AR503ce and I ended up replacing it with an AR403ce, which is the same shape guitar but a laminate top and a thinner neck with rosewood instead of ebony and a single action truss rod so it was just more comfortable for me.
I'm a big fan of older MIK Epiphone hollowbodies. I own this Zephyr and think it's amazing all around:
Just a moment...
Once you replace the pickup with a Gibson 57 Classic it's a nice poor man's ES175 (or Herb Ellis 165 since it just has one pickup, which I also prefer).
Ooo, here's an Epiphone ES-175 Premium. These came with the Gibson 57 Classic humbuckers, a rare and key upgrade for an Asian hollowbody:
Just a moment...
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Some times it's just good to eliminate a choice, so I'd suggest eliminating the idea of an 18 inch guitar.
Then I sure wouldn't rule out a deal on a 'burst, vs blonde.
Good luck with your search !
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+1 on the Epiphone choices.
I like Fender scale so I have a Broadway. Did 25 gigs with it last year. Lots of compliments.
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Hi rourou, and welcome to this exciting world!
You offer some really good examples and they're all worthy and all desirable for different reasons.
As to the options which you've outlined quite nicely, that shows that you've done your homework and you know something about these boxes. But think about this before you spend your money: It's a musical instrument you're buying and the value of a good, or even I dare say, the perfect instrument is how it inspires you to be a better musician.
Everybody has reasons why they think their choice might be right, but it's based on things they've read, or if you're lucky, their experience as a player. Only YOU will know what is right for you, and that knowledge comes from your experience as you become a player.
Yeah take the advice offered, but know that the goal is to find what you will play, hour after hour.
You said you like Pat Metheny's playing. That excites you.
I've always liked the PM20, it's discontinued but if you find a used one, especially a blonde one you're excited by, consider it. There's also a more recent Chinese version of that, the PM35 that does come in natural finish.
Get something that's not going to max out your budget, something that excites you, something that you can look at proudly and something that will inspire you to pick up and learn to play on. Your first jazz box, especially at this point in your musical knowledge, should be something that has immediate appeal to you, makes you want to learn on, gives you something so you can grow on, formulate your own informed criteria on what is right for you. First one is a learning guitar, as much about guitars as it is about yourself. And maybe if it's sexy enough at first impression, you might be inspired to upgrade pickups, hardware, amp, or even to sell it when you realize you can get what you want with a larger, smaller, solid wood or even flat top guitar.
I consider Eastman or a custom guitar guitars that appeal to a smaller demographic. They're made with a different touch and sound in mind. They're maybe not a guitar Pat Metheny would be playing.
The PM guitars offer a solid instrument, less fussy as far as environmental considerations, a 16" size that can give you a good starting point from which you can explore a more intimate smaller bodied guitar or feel the difference a larger 17" body can make. You can have a good solid point from which you can consider your options. After all, it's knowing the answers as to what's right for YOU that you're asking.
If at all possible, get to a store where a few of these options are available, learn a couple of pieces in the jazz style, sit with several guitars for an hour or two and I think you'll have a much better feeling of why you have choices and what they mean.
Go with what turns you on. It's what's going to make the difference between the fantasy you keep in the case and the guitar you keep on the stand and play every minute you have.
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+1
Originally Posted by Boze
The best finds available if you can find one. I had one with a PAF I retrofitted. 'couldn't put it down.
But that was a fit for me.
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Dangelico Exl 1 with a set humbucker. By far the best budget archtop I’ve ever played. You can get it used around your price point. There’s one for 1.7k on reverb right now make him an offer.
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I have archtops of 15", 16", 17", and 18" bouts. I prefer 16". I also prefer 2.5" to 2.75" body depth. I have guitars with nominal scale lengths from 22.75" to 23.5", and I have no preference at all, there isn't enough difference for me to care about. My guitars have nut widths ranging from 1.625" to 1.76". I prefer narrower, but any is usable. I prefer parallel bracing. All that said, I am not you. I do not, and can not, know your preferences. All those choices are available because some people want them. And as far as I know, there is no way for you to know what you prefer until you've tried all of them. That is not a short process. It is very, very rare for anyone to find their ideal guitar in the first one they acquire, and we all seem to go through many guitars before finding 'the one'. Some of us go through hundreds, flipping them quickly, some are slower. I've bought a fair number, and sold only a handful over my lifetime. Everyone is an individual, different in many ways, and there is no right choice. I would only advise buying a somewhat standard factory-built guitar to start, because they can be sold more easily than a custom-built instrument. Wu makes very nice guitars, but I don't think there is a big market for used ones. I've never tried to sell the ones I own, so my knowledge of that market is limited, and I could very well be wrong. But in general, I think it's better to start with something that can easily be traded or sold when (not if) you decide you want something different. Just accept going in that you won't get your ideal on the first try, but keep it for awhile until you learn what you like and dislike about it, so you can make a more informed choice on the next one. And the next, and the next....
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Omg. Thank you for all the generous sharing. I'm in Singapore and a little closer to China and Japan where some of these guitars are built. ( But the world's a smaller place these days )
I'll make a trip to the guitar stores and start playing a few and continue to pay attention to all the reviews here and in YouTube.
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As you navigate through to determine which hollow body to purchase, don't forget to set aside some $$$ for a quality guitar amp that is or can be voiced for jazz.
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Thanks Shekie,
Currently I have a Yamaha THR30ii and a Markbass bass amp. There's a shop in town that sells the DVMark little jazz so that's an option too.
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Keep it simple for your first archtop guitar; don't have one built for you for your first instrument. Learn what you like and don't like first. Too many choices to make.
The Ibanez archtops are good guitars. The PM models are fine, but so are the non-signature lines which are good axes and cost a lot less. Use the saved money to buy jazz guitar lessons and save yourself some time and trouble in learning, if you haven't had some jazz studies already.
Eastmans are also good. Their necks tend to be wider than the Ibanez necks. The AR5xx models might be a goo place to start, or the AR371 or 372.
Epiphones tend to be OK, some are very good. I would be inclined to look in the used market for one made in Korea.
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Interesting. Well you might be more disposed to Chinese guitars than a lot of people. No point recommending the Godin Kingpins I guess. Originally Posted by rourou
Otherwise, I’d say the new Pat Metheny CC would tick all the boxes for me. Really not very expensive, considering current prices. Made in Indonesia. I myself bought a Gibson ES175 BITD because Pat and Joe Pass played them, but the PM3C is more economical.
The Eastmans seem like a good choice too. The ones I’ve tried out have been very nice.
As mentioned, Epi guitars made in Korea are very good, and Korean guitars like Peerless are also excellent.
Good luck with your quest!
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My suggestion? Don’t order a Yuhnzhi. Don’t pay $1600 or whatever price for a PM3. Do purchase the Epiphone Premium ES175 in Sunburst on Reverb.
Why? It’s an excellent guitar that plays way better than its price point. These Epi Premium’s were a limited production only for 2 or so years. They’re packed with all the right parts, and possess Gibson Classic 57 pickups. And, that guitar generally sells for more than its currently priced. And, if you don’t have an amp you’ll have funds left over to purchase and/or begin saving for an amp, because you’re going to need one.
The Epi also is finished in a nice nitrocellulose lacquer, not the typical poly finish from Asian instruments.
And because you don’t know this, the Epi is a poor man’s ES175. And the ES175 was THE budget jazz guitar for decades. So, in short, run, don’t walk to purchase the Epi. You won’t be disappointed.
And yes, I own one. This guitar is a can’t miss that will be the perfect archtop to learn on.
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I'll second the Epi ES175 Premium, if one can be found with the original pickups. The only reason I don't play mine every day is because I'm no longer comfortable with full-depth archtops. I wish the Epi was only 2.75" deep or less, but they don't make any like that. I truly believe mine is as good as a Gibson ES175 in every way, and far more economical.
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If it wasn’t a 3 3/8” depth it wouldn’t resemble an ES175. I prefer the depth of the guitar, and the only thing I’d add is some depth to the neck. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately I don't see this model being sold in my region.
There is a "new old stock" Joe Pass emperor Pro though.
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What year? The Emperor is okay but I prefer the older Korean ones to the later Chinese ones with the prominent Joe Pass branding. If there's one you can test locally and it doesn't cost too much it's not a bad option. Originally Posted by rourou
Check out Ohad Niceberg on YouTube and Instagram; he gets more jazz out of a Joe Pass Emperor than anyone I know.
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I would want to know what kind of jazz you listen to/like and what sound in a "jazz guitar" you tend to gravitate to
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Of course it wouldn't be an ES175, but that's why I don't play it so often. I prefer a thinner depth, and our preferences have no need to be even similar. I do agree that a slightly thicker neck would be better, but it's good enough for me, I'm not anal about necks, as long as they're straight and have level frets. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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Good question. As I'm a little new, I recognise that there is no one sound that people would associate with jazz guitar. Originally Posted by chris32895
I guess this video of Jim Hall and Pat Metheny might be an example. Warm, dark, treble rolled off. Or so I think.Last edited by rourou; 12-23-2024 at 11:31 PM.
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You’re probably all set for amps then , Originally Posted by rourou
to my ears , those Markbass bass amps sound good for jazz guitar too
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I liked the Guild CE100 reissues. I think they don't make them anymore, but should be available used under 1k.
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Like others suggested, I started with an Epi 175 premium too. Its a good starting point. The only thing I dislike about it is the thinner neck, it feels more like a shredder
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With this budget you can buy an Eastman AR480 Pisano or AR580... excellent instruments, made with great materials, with a good acoustic experience and a very professional sound. I wouldn't even compare it to an Epi es175, which with the exception of the pickups, is a guitar made to compete in another league!
Eastman AR480CE-SB Just a moment...
Eastman AR580CE-HB Honeyburst with Eastman Hard case Gently used Just a moment...
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