"The Sound of the American Mandolin"

[supersoul]

I came across the documentary and thought it might be of interest to any L-5 fans here. Most of it is about how Orville Gibson and Lloyd Loar developed a new design for the mandolin, with the carved top and bottom with f-holes and tonebars. In fact they created a family of mandolins that included the tenor mandola and the mandocello.

Near the 42 minute mark they bring out a rare mandocello called the K-5, which is basically the same body as an L-5 with a different neck and 8 strings. The lowest string is a C below the guitar's E. It sounds fantastic!

[Doctor Jeff]

I agree that sounds great. Beautiful resonant bass drone-like tones.

[Doctor Jeff]

Here's Sierra Hull on a Gold Tone mandocello. She's going to be here in 10 days. I saw her last year, but wouldn't mind seeing her again. She and her band are phenomenal.

On a slight tangent, I was sure she was sitting near me at a restaurant over the weekend, and almost went up to her to say hi, but the pretty lady in question had tattoos on her arms, and a quick google search revealed Sierra to be ink-free. No reason for Sierra to be in Omaha 2 weeks before her show, anyway.

[supersoul]

Here's Sierra Hull on a Gold Tone mandocello. She's going to be here in 10 days. I saw her last year, but wouldn't mind seeing her again. She and her band are phenomenal.

On a slight tangent, I was sure she was sitting near me at a restaurant over the weekend, and almost went up to her to say hi, but the pretty lady in question had tattoos on her arms, and a quick google search revealed Sierra to be ink-free. No reason for Sierra to be in Omaha 2 weeks before her show, anyway.

thanks for that, someone new for me to check out. She sounds badass on that mandocello!

[Woody Sound]

See my avatar.

[garybaldy]

I came across the documentary and thought it might be of interest to any L-5 fans here. Most of it is about how Orville Gibson and Lloyd Loar developed a new design for the mandolin, with the carved top and bottom with f-holes and tonebars. In fact they created a family of mandolins that included the tenor mandola and the mandocello.

Near the 42 minute mark they bring out a rare mandocello called the K-5, which is basically the same body as an L-5 with a different neck and 8 strings. The lowest string is a C below the guitar's E. It sounds fantastic!

A fascinating documentary. I wonder if any of the mandocellos were converted to have guitar necks. I believe there was a tenor version of the Maccaferri of which some were converted.

[sgosnell]

The album Tone Poems II, by David Grisman and Martin Taylor, has some songs played on mandocello. They all featured vintage instruments, both guitar and Mando family. If you want to hear well-recorded vintage acoustic guitars, and vintage mandolin-family instruments, this is one you need to buy, or at least listen to. It's on YouTube. My CD seems to be missing the album notes which detail the instruments used on which songs.

[Tom Wright]

Gibson wanted to do the same marketing that Selmer used, promoting local bands using their instruments (as in "The Music Man"). So there were mandolin orchestras. The move to f-holes was chasing the classical market, emulating the violin family.

Early bowed instruments, like a viola d'amore or viola da gamba, had multiple strings in close intervals like guitars. The Italians fielded the new violin family in string ensembles that were substantially louder, because fewer strings allowed a greater curve for the bridge, which allowed one to really dig in with the modern bow. But the more limited chording options meant an ensemble was necessary for music with harmony.

Mandolins are a poor violin, really better at being a guitar, but don't have enough string courses. I find the 5-course instruments quite useful at both melody snd chording. But the American designs for mandola and lower use long scales that make even double stops a challenge, unless only fifths and sixths.

I find a four-course mandolin too limited for my purposes, which include acoustic folk dances and electric jazz. If guitar players can handle six and more strings, mandolin players should be able to move up to five-course instruments.

My electric ten-string serves well in a bass and drums trio. Brazilians are increasingly embracing 5- and 10-string instruments. I heard virtuoso Hamilton de Holanda with a bass/drums trio, hugely entertaining. No guitar needed.

[RJVB]

the new violin family in string ensembles that were substantially louder, because fewer strings allowed a greater curve for the bridge, which allowed one to really dig in with the modern bow.

Early violin bridges less curved than viola da gamba bridges; in fact, I'd say that even a modern violin bridge is maybe even a bit less curved because that's possible due to the smaller number of strings and the modern bow. But that modern (Tourte) bow is a very late development; earlier violin bows were a similar design as viol bows.

[Tom Wright]

Classical violin and viola were my career. I've played a d'amore and a friend uses her da gamba at folk dances.

Probably even Amati had a higher bridge. Certainly after Stradivari and then Guarneri the bridge is highly curved.

No way is a classical violin less curved than a da gamba bridge. Given it has more strings the viol may cover more of an arc, but the key is the angle difference between strings.

Back to my point, Americans mainly use Loar-type mandolins for bluegrass and some old-style acoustic swing. Talents like Chris Thile should branch out and go for more range.

[sgosnell]

I prefer the 5-string electric mandolin, as played by Tiny Moore, and later Paul Glasse, Don Stiernberg, and others. I own a couple of acoustics, albeit one modified with a built-in pickup, but I rarely play them. To each his own.

[RJVB]

Classical violin and viola were my career.

Baroque violin one of mine (or would have been if I'd made better choices).

Given it has more strings the viol may cover more of an arc, but the key is the angle difference between strings.

Exactly my point in fact, "higher" and "curved" are ambiguous terms in this context. A context that was about very early violins from how I interpreted things and I've seen and played enough reconstructions of those instruments to know that their bridges can feel completely flat and almost perfectly suited for playing triple stops. For me the main reason for the take-over of the violin family is their power and projection making them more suitable for larger venues and for accompanying dances (if you've read Boyden's book you're aware of the theory about the influence of the rebec which was ultimately also replaced by the violin).

(And you're right that there are very highly curved modern violin bridges. Had one of those for a while, hated it ... it's still somewhere in my "curiosities cabinet")


Back to mandolins ... I recall reading somewhere that many original mandocellos were converted to guitars because they are almost identical to the original L5?

[RJVB]

Here's Sierra Hull on a Gold Tone mandocello.

Another player in almost the same style who's often shown with a mando (but not so often seen playing one as he plays just about everything with strings) is Tim O'Brien.
He does here, 5 minutes in:

(Direct jump: https://youtu.be/30RQG9-6A1Y?t=300)