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Actually, there was a lawsuit. Look up Gibson v Elger. It was filed in US District Court in Philadelphia and eventually settled out of court. Elger Company was Harry Rosenblum’s lutherie and guitar import business and his supplier was Hoshino. It was Harry who put Ibanez together with knockoffs of American guitars and essentially started the Japanese guitar industry as we know it today.
Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
See this newspaper clipping from the Dayton Daily News of July 3, 1977 for a few more details.
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08-05-2025 08:56 PM
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Right, but the lawsuit was against the US distributor, not Ibanez. I guess it’s how one looks at it. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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Gibson could not sue Ibanez directly as the US Courts had no jurisdiction over Hoshino/Ibanez and Japanese IP law would have made suing Hoshino/Ibanez in Japan a tough battle (and probably not winnable). But Gibson was able to sue the importer and by getting the importer to settle, Gibson was able to stop the flow of Japanese made Gibson knock-offs from coming into the USA. IIRC, those guitars were still made and sold in the Japanese market even after the settlement. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
I remember that some of the solid body knock offs from Tokai were better than Fender and Gibson's offerings back in the late 70's and early 80's. I was never particularly impressed with any of the knock off archtops and I am amazed at the prices that those guitars fetch today. OTOH, some of the D'Angelico copies made in Japan are pretty damn good as are the Japanese made Benson (and other) archtops of today.
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Hoshino was a named co-defendant. Hoshino had bought Elger from Harry in 1971, so I think it’s splitting hairs to say that Ibanez wasn’t involved. They owned Elger, they managed the defense, and they orchestrated the settlement. Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 08-06-2025 at 07:57 AM.
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Great! I’m totally not invested in this, so great, Ibanez was officially sued by Gibson. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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Hmmm. Somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed today Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
I meant no disrespect or ill will. I try to be accurate in my statements and to gently correct others when a fact is misstated. I’ve said many things here & elsewhere that turned out to be wrong. In this thread alone, I misidentified Benson’s 2461 because I didn’t know their headstock inlays were changed. I also didn’t know that the FA100 had been “updated” with different inlays & a different tailpiece.
I also try to make it clear that what I believe to be true is simply what I believe to be true. If there’s evidence to support it, the strength of my statement parallels the strength of the evidence. I simply don’t like seeing unsubstantiated beliefs represented as absolute facts.
The internet is one big game of “Whispering Down the Lane”. If we can push it back when it goes off the rails, everyone wins. But I clearly ruffled your feathers and I apologize for that.
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Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
Hmmm. Somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed today
I meant no disrespect or ill will. I try to be accurate in my statements and to gently correct others when a fact is misstated. I’ve said many things here & elsewhere that turned out to be wrong. In this thread alone, I misidentified Benson’s 2461 because I didn’t know their headstock inlays were changed. I also didn’t know that the FA100 had been “updated” with different inlays & a different tailpiece.
I also try to make it clear that what I believe to be true is simply what I believe to be true. If there’s evidence to support it, the strength of my statement parallels the strength of the evidence. I simply don’t like seeing unsubstantiated beliefs represented as absolute facts.
The internet is one big game of “Whispering Down the Lane”. If we can push it back when it goes off the rails, everyone wins. But I clearly ruffled your feathers and I apologize for that.
This reply should be framed and hung up somewhere for all to see. Way to go!
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No feathers ruffled at all, I simply don’t really have any skin in the game here. Your explanation is certainly appreciated nonetheless. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
Hmmm. Somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed today
I meant no disrespect or ill will. I try to be accurate in my statements and to gently correct others when a fact is misstated. I’ve said many things here & elsewhere that turned out to be wrong. In this thread alone, I misidentified Benson’s 2461 because I didn’t know their headstock inlays were changed. I also didn’t know that the FA100 had been “updated” with different inlays & a different tailpiece.
I also try to make it clear that what I believe to be true is simply what I believe to be true. If there’s evidence to support it, the strength of my statement parallels the strength of the evidence. I simply don’t like seeing unsubstantiated beliefs represented as absolute facts.
The internet is one big game of “Whispering Down the Lane”. If we can push it back when it goes off the rails, everyone wins. But I clearly ruffled your feathers and I apologize for that.
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