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I have been inquiring about a heritage guitar seller says was tap tuned. There is no note on the label or any other documentation of this. when I questioned it the reply was " A NON tap tuned guitar has something that a tap tuned guitar doesn’t have- a center reinforcement strip over the back seam. When there is no strip, it’s tap tuned. This guitar has no center strip. That’s why I said it was tap tuned. " Can anyone shed some light on this?
Thanks
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07-31-2024 11:51 PM
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Sounds like a load o' crap to me.
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Not sure about the center strip. I hadn't heard that. I looked at four Heritage Johnny Smiths. All were cross braced. There is no center strip in two of them. The other two had a strip from the crossing to the end pin. This was the same in my Sweet 16. The American Eagle has no strip. I have three Heritage-made Gretsch 18" Synchromatics. One has a partial center strip. All of these have floating pickups. Then I looked at those with mounted pickups. The parallel braced ones had no center seam. I have one with a mounted neck pickup with cross bracing. That has a partial center strip. In summary, I don't think I can say whether the center strip tells you one way or another.
The tap tuned mystique deserves a minute. That term means different things.
Some tune the plates to pitch. One of the guys at old Gibson did. Wilbur Fuller | NAMM.org
Aaron Cowles did not tune to pitch. When Aaron did tap tuning for Heritage, he would just get the plates and work on them at his shop.
Marv Lamb and JP Moats each had their own style but did not tune to pitch. Other luthiers carve to get peak resonance at a spot they aimed for on the top.
Some of the tap tuned archtops that Heritage made said tap tuned on the label, especially if Aaron did the work since customers paid an extra $150. Fuller's guitars didn't say they were tap tuned, as far as I know. Marv's and JP's didn't say tap tuned.
The American Eagle and most Johnny Smiths made by Heritage had their plates made by on of the guys who did a lot of tap tuning, so that effort went into them. Aaron did the American Eagles, but the labels don't say tap tuned.
Pete Moreno, who knew all of these guys, said that when they worked on the upscale archtops each did a different way of tuning. They would talk among themselves about it, but each had a different preference. Pete said you could hear a difference and know who did the tuning. All sounded good in their own way.
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Can one tell in a blind test?
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Tap tuning is a process by which the wood plates (top and back) are brought into a system where those pieces, and the air, and the tuning of the guitar are brought into agreement.
There are many elements that are in play when you're playing an in-tune guitar. If the plates are tuned to bring out a wide range of individual notes, the entire instrument feels alive and each note has clarity. If an instrument is not tuned, it may not have the ability to project or reenforce the notes, especially the upper harmonics of a played note.
A mistuned instruments may result in a dull sound, lack of enforcing sustain of harmonic decay or even wolf notes or out of phase top/back which can result in "dead notes" or notes that don't sparkle.
Sometimes a guitar is well tuned by coincidence, sometimes it's not. A luthier with tap tuning abilities can assure a better, stronger and more even instrument a greater percentage of the time.
And it doesn't really matter if it's got bracing, reenforcement or material differences as much as it does that what you're working with is worked to the optimum tuning of that material.
You can carve a mahogany back to sing and you can get a winner with maple too. But untuned, you can't work with mismatched plates.
I've regraduated existing tops and backs and tuned them. Different instrument emerges.
That's the simple story of a very complex process. Take of it as you will
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AFAIK tuning a top plate to a specific pitch is not a thing, and rarely done. The seller is just repeating something he has heard or read on the internet. Not everything on the internet is actually true. Hard to believe, I know, but them's the facts.
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Bill Hollenbeck and Bill Barker never tune a top of the guitar to any specific pitch. It was about getting the top to be most responsive and yet be stable and strong. Hollenbeck said the tuning to a specific pitch was actually dangerous because then that note when played could be a wolf-tone or cancel out and not respond like the others.
Tap tuning at least in my mind means the build did not use CNC and would do the final carving himself to assure that top was responding the way they wanted the guitar to sound. In the end it is all builder specific, John Dangelico, D'aquisto, Campellone Gibson, as well as any other fine maker have their own methods and ways.
I have 2 Heritage JS'sand they sound wonderful and resonate. Were they tap tuned? Yes I don't think Heritage would just CNC and be done.
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I studied and worked with Al Carruth. We both apprenticed with a violin builder. We tapped to a pitch because that's one controlling factour in violin family tradition. Al had a very enlightening talk with Jimmy D'Aquisto about tap tuning. Jimmy tapped in specific areas and flexed in very specific ways and twisted in others. He had a very complete idea of how the wood should sound, and feel, and flex. The tuning notes were specific but the relationships were even more important. He couldn't explain how these things contributed to the whole, but he knew what to do to bring it into balance.
Originally Posted by deacon Mark
When I worked with Al, he tuned by ear and flexed with the hands but also ran patterns with Chladni patterns. It's interesting to note that each of the modal patterns across the frequency spectrum had a characteristic glitter/hologram pattern at certain frequencies. These patterns coincided exactly with the ways Jimmy flexed the top and what he heard when he tapped in different spots.
But as is pointed out, many luthiers, many ways of doing things, and many mental pictures of what's going on.
The player decides what works when they chose the luthier that gets their sound.
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From what I've seen and read from well-known luthiers, they tend to tune the top to the compliance they want, and don't worry about the specific tapped note. Using a center reinforcement strip has nothing to do with whether the top was 'tap tuned', AFAIK, it's just reinforcement of the center seam, and could be done regardless of what else was done to tune the top, or not done. I wouldn't reject, nor buy, a guitar based solely on that.
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I knew I could count on you guys!
Thanks (im gonna pass on this one)
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Heritage Guitars can be some of the best ever believe me I own 3. What guitar is it maybe the price we can get an idea. In my mind if you can find a Heritage that you like and the fit and sound is good, they are sleepers. My 3 Heritages are acoustic archtops and they have no problem keeping up with the Gibsons and others I have. In a blind found test you might be surprised at what you like. Originally Posted by Rickco
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I scoped a bunch of Heritages looking for the center seam strip. Parallel braced (2) did not have it. X-braced 4 Johnny Smiths showed two had a partial strip. Three 18" Heritage built Gretsch Synchromatics showed two with them. The American Eagle didn't have one.
I don't think the seam strip tells you about tap tuning, but maybe.
Here's a very good read about Gibson tap tuning. Gibson Kalamazoo Award | Vintage Guitar(R) magazine
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Great info, The guitar in question is an early S16 floater in nice shape fair price. The seller insists it is tap tuned but there is no note in the guitar or other documentation and Im not close enough to try it. I have 4 Heritage archtops 3 have mounted pickups 1 is a GE floater. I love all 4, so much so I want an acoustic S16 but...I want to know it was carved for acoustic response like many I have heard. I dont care what pickup it has Ill probably play 80/20s on it and my KA single coil floater works great on my GE so depending what I end up with thats always an option. The seller made statements that were questionable and while I dont think he was being dishonest Im not taking chances. On another note, as long as I have the floor, The info on the Kalamazoo was really interesting, I know this is heresy but Ive heard my GE with a couple Kalamazoo's and although its personal taste and they sounded different to my ear the '97 GE left nothing on the table acoustically or plugged in. I only point that out because although its carved light it wasnt tap tuned (at least not noted on label) and it has the seam strip but has gorgeous loud voice in spite of that. I got it used so dont know how it was specked but the pickguard testifies to someone chunkin 4 like no tomorrow. Im looking at another 16 custom ordered '11 label signed by everyone very very nice with some custom touches but no TT indication seller says it was ordered carved light but thats all the evidence. Im not in a hurry but I will end with...I wish I was the guy that got Big Mikes S16!!!
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My guess is that's called "beer at lunch" in Heritageland. Possibly combined with "gotta leave and go fishing, so let's just close up this box and get on with it." How about the back plates on all of those guitars? Any matchy-matchy there regarding the center-seam strips? No scope required. Very interesting topic. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
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Besides Heritage's center strip, you know what else is random? The universe. Ain't it lovely though? Originally Posted by Hammertone
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I ended up with that Sweet 16, but I had previously bought that many years earlier. It was a known entity to me. There are plenty more out there and one will turn up.I wish I was the guy that got Big Mikes S16!!!
The Heritage Floating #3 pickup is a bit of a strange bird. It is low output and has a distinct sound. It was designed and made by Ken Rambow- with that name you might expect a "strong" output. I've replaced it on some guitars. One had Kent Armstrong rebuild the pickup, which is more electric sounding. There are a variety of other options, but dealing with the pickguard cutout may be something to contend with.
Rob Doolittle made a Heritage sized pickup for me that is single coil. I am very happy with that. He works for Heritage and is a whiz at luthiery and electronics. He has a private business as well. Kalamazoo Guitar Company – Passion Drives Us, Music Fuels Us
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You should have the S16, I can still be jealous. About 3-4 yrs ago I had KA put a single coil in my GE. He said he did a lot of GEs because of the low output stock floater but had not yet done one with a single coil. I unplugged the pickguard/pickup assembly, sent it on, and he put his cut quiet single coil in the stock cover so it looks the same. He mounted a switch under the guard and capped it off with a really cool lookin knob gratis. I couldnt be happier, I also have his 12 pole on another guitar and thats sweet also. Rumor has it KA retired so thanks for the tip on Doolittle. Im not super motivated for the 16 so its one of those if it finds me Ill make a move. Thanks for the help and tips.
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Sweet 16 floaters can be truly special. I’ve only owned 4 of them, but my favorite was a single mounted Humbucker finished in the most beautiful Chestnut Sunburst. It was a guitar I truly regret selling, only to purchase my first L5. But that’s the train I was on for to buy another guitar something had to go. And this was when Heritage’s were very cheap compared to today’s prices. I’ve been very fortunate to own some gem Heritage’s, especially having owned countless Super Eagles. I’ve owned enough guitars not to have preferences. I bonded with nearly all of them, but soon learned not to have attachments.
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For acoustic playing tuned top ... and back ... are probably beneficial IMHO.
I'm hoping for a more resonant guitar when its tap tuned, whatever mystic and mysterious way the luthiers choose to execute the tuning.
When touring flat top makers like Martin and Taylor they said they were tuning their tops to resonate around the frequency for G.
For electric playing, it's possible your choosing which frequencies are more likely to cause feedback. LOL
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