The Biggest Tease In Jazz Guitar History?

[58flame]

Happy to report both my Benedettos show the finish sinking into the grain.

[213Cobra]

I have a 1994 Guild AA and a 2006 Guild-Benedetto JS (one of the 18 signed). I had also until mid-2023, a 2002 Guild-Benedetto AA (pre-JS). The '94 was made in Westerly, the two G-Bs were made in Corona. A few observations: First my '94 Guild AA has an appropriately thin nitro finish, with all the "organic" characteristics noted. Guess what? So did my 2002 G-B AA and so does my G-B JS, including the finish "sinking into the grain" on the spruce tops. I had heard for years about a thick finish problem on the various Guild-Benedetto guitars, and I've seen eight or ten over the years, and it wasn't evident on any. I'm not saying there are no thick finish G-B guitars; just that it's not a "known problem" in a general sense. I also owned a Guild-Benedetto X-700 for almost 20 years, and it too had a finish that appeared equally "organic" and thin, compared to my other Guilds, my Gibson L-5 Wes, Super 4000, L-5CT Acoustic, L4CES, etc., etc. I'll go further -- the G-B finishes seem no thicker than the nitro on my 50 years old Guild and 42 years old Martin flattops

I have Gibson and Guild archtops, carved and laminated. Apart from 1990 and 2024 ES-335s and a 1991 ES-165, my Gibson archtops are Hutchins and Culbertson eras. From a workmanship and build quality standpoint there is nothing that Guild cedes to Gibson, and in some ways beats it. Same with playability (I don't mind 25"+ scale lengths). On sound....well, they are just different voices equally well executed. I had a single pickup (neck) G-B X-700 which was a direct analog of my L-5 Wes. My L-5CT Acoustic is a near analog to my Guild Awards. The Guilds all sound what I'll describe as "harmonically more complete." Guilds have more chime. Gibsons have more midrange emphasis, which some people interpret as having more "body" but I disagree. The two companies' archtop voicings result in differences in tonal composition, but whether you think one represents more tone quality is a matter of preference and nothing more. I don't have any argument with anyone who exclusively prefers Gibson's voice, but then again I still have never heard any sound from a 175 that I could aurally associate with the word "thunk," including one I once owned. I like having both expressions of what the archtop guitar should sound like. Neither is better. Really the same but different.

Throw then-independent Epiphone into the mix and you can hear and feel both a third conviction and some roots of Guild's sound. Again, is one better or just another expression? It's the latter.

My three loudest, most dynamically responsive acoustic archtops are -- with only the thinness of Donald Trump's skin separating them in dynamic range and volume potential -- the 18-1/2" 1951 Epiphone Emperor Regent, 18" Gibson Super 4000 and 17" Guild-Benedetto Johnny Smith. They all bark and project like lighthouses. That the 17" G-B JSA is in league with the other two dynamically further suggests it doesn't have a heavy coat muting it.

I agree a thick finish is objectively observable without removing it. I just haven't seen or felt it on any of my Benedetto Guilds or others I encountered.

Phil

[MtnCat]

Elitist Broadway

• 2002-2008

Body:

• Solid spruce top
• AAA Flame Maple back & sides
• 17" body width
• 3.375" body depth

Neck:

• 5-Piece Maple/Rosewood set mahogany neck
• Ebony fingerboard with abalone & pearl V-block inlays
• Clipped-ear headstock with pearl Tree of Life inlay
• Elite or Elitist logo on back of headstock
• 25.5" scale
• 1.68" nut width

Binding:

• 7-ply body
• 5-ply pickguard
• 3-ply neck & headstock
• Single-ply f-holes

Electronics:

• USA 50SR & 50TR humbucker pickups
• 2 Vol. 2 Tone controls
• 3-way selector switch

Hardware:

• 24K Gold hardware
• Grover tuners with Imperial Buttons
• Tune-o-matic bridge frequensator tailpiece
• Ebony bridge base with pearl inlays
• Raised tortoise pickguard with foil "E" emblem
• White carousel knobs

Colors:

• Antique Natural (AN)
• Vintage Sunburst (VS)

http://epiphonewiki.org/index/Elitist_Archtops.php scroll down to get to the Elitist Broadway.

[MtnCat]

Zephyr Regent Reissue

• 1999-2008

Body:

• Single Flourentine cutaway
• Full-depth body
• Mahogany body
• Laminated maple top

Neck:

• Set maple neck
• Rosewood fingerboard
• Split parallelogram inlays & crown inlay on headstock (1999-2005)
• Dot inlays & no inlay on headstock (2006-2008)
• Vintage style heel
• 24.75" Scale
• 1.68" nut

Binding:

• 1-ply Body and neck

Electronics:

• 1 Alnico Classic Humbucker
• 1 vol. 1 Tone controls

Hardware:

• Gold hardware
• Tune-o-matic bridge with rosewood base
• Trapeze tailpiece
• Elevated pickguard
• Gold bell knobs
• Deluxe tuners

Colors:

• Vintage Sunburst (VS)

http://epiphonewiki.org/index/Zephyr.php scroll down to get to the ZR specs.

Main page;
http://epiphonewiki.org/index/Main_Page.php

[bananafist]

I know the Gibson JS guitars had 1 3/4" nuts, but I always thought the Guild ones were narrower, but if JS played them.....? Can anyone (Archie?) clarify definitively.

[58flame]

I know the Gibson JS guitars had 1 3/4" nuts, but I always thought the Guild ones were narrower, but if JS played them.....? Can anyone (Archie?) clarify definitively.

What are you asking ? You want neck measurements? Or if Johnny played them?

The answer to the second is yes. There are photos of him playing them and a video interview where he expresses his admiration for them.

If you want neck measurements I'll have to dig out my calipers because I own the two guitars of which you speak.

[213Cobra]

I know the Gibson JS guitars had 1 3/4" nuts, but I always thought the Guild ones were narrower, but if JS played them.....? Can anyone (Archie?) clarify definitively.

My 2006 Guild-Benedetto JS Award measures 1.6905" nut width. For reference, my 1994 Guild Artist Award measures 1.7355" wide at the nut. -Phil

[bananafist]

Thanks for that info, just curious I guess. I've played both Gibson and Guild JSs in store back in the day, and my memory was that the Guild was narrower at the nut. I've owned a few Gibsons over the years, like most of us, but my fingers and hands prefer a 1.75" nut. My favourite guitars were a Gibson Country Gent and even more so, a Gretsch 6122-1959 Nashville Classic. The Gretsch size frets work best for me. I've got too old and arthriticky for 17" guitars now, sadly, but I have a 16" Daniel Slaman he built for me with 1.75" nut and some custom teles ditto.

[58flame]

I have a 1994 Guild AA and a 2006 Guild-Benedetto JS (one of the 18 signed). I had also until mid-2023, a 2002 Guild-Benedetto AA (pre-JS). The '94 was made in Westerly, the two G-Bs were made in Corona. A few observations: First my '94 Guild AA has an appropriately thin nitro finish, with all the "organic" characteristics noted. Guess what? So did my 2002 G-B AA and so does my G-B JS, including the finish "sinking into the grain" on the spruce tops. I had heard for years about a thick finish problem on the various Guild-Benedetto guitars, and I've seen eight or ten over the years, and it wasn't evident on any. I'm not saying there are no thick finish G-B guitars; just that it's not a "known problem" in a general sense. I also owned a Guild-Benedetto X-700 for almost 20 years, and it too had a finish that appeared equally "organic" and thin, compared to my other Guilds, my Gibson L-5 Wes, Super 4000, L-5CT Acoustic, L4CES, etc., etc. I'll go further -- the G-B finishes seem no thicker than the nitro on my 50 years old Guild and 42 years old Martin flattops

I have Gibson and Guild archtops, carved and laminated. Apart from 1990 and 2024 ES-335s and a 1991 ES-165, my Gibson archtops are Hutchins and Culbertson eras. From a workmanship and build quality standpoint there is nothing that Guild cedes to Gibson, and in some ways beats it. Same with playability (I don't mind 25"+ scale lengths). On sound....well, they are just different voices equally well executed. I had a single pickup (neck) G-B X-700 which was a direct analog of my L-5 Wes. My L-5CT Acoustic is a near analog to my Guild Awards. The Guilds all sound what I'll describe as "harmonically more complete." Guilds have more chime. Gibsons have more midrange emphasis, which some people interpret as having more "body" but I disagree. The two companies' archtop voicings result in differences in tonal composition, but whether you think one represents more tone quality is a matter of preference and nothing more. I don't have any argument with anyone who exclusively prefers Gibson's voice, but then again I still have never heard any sound from a 175 that I could aurally associate with the word "thunk," including one I once owned. I like having both expressions of what the archtop guitar should sound like. Neither is better. Really the same but different.

Throw then-independent Epiphone into the mix and you can hear and feel both a third conviction and some roots of Guild's sound. Again, is one better or just another expression? It's the latter.

My three loudest, most dynamically responsive acoustic archtops are -- with only the thinness of Donald Trump's skin separating them in dynamic range and volume potential -- the 18-1/2" 1951 Epiphone Emperor Regent, 18" Gibson Super 4000 and 17" Guild-Benedetto Johnny Smith. They all bark and project like lighthouses. That the 17" G-B JSA is in league with the other two dynamically further suggests it doesn't have a heavy coat muting it.

I agree a thick finish is objectively observable without removing it. I just haven't seen or felt it on any of my Benedetto Guilds or others I encountered.

Phil

Here’s another example of finish sinking into the top on a GB. Wonder if that one guitar was an isolated incident? Empirical data seems to suggest that.

What a pleasant surprise!

https://ebay.us/m/p6RAAQ

[213Cobra]

Here’s another example of finish sinking into the top on a GB. Wonder if that one guitar was an isolated incident? Empirical data seems to suggest that.

What a pleasant surprise!

https://ebay.us/m/p6RAAQ

Yes, that looks splendid. But that $21,900 asking price is breathtakingly delusional! -Phil

[58flame]

Yes, that looks splendid. But that $21,900 asking price is breathtakingly delusional! -Phil

Agree on all accounts. It seems that sweeping generalizations are just that. Thank goodness for these online forums. I think I'll make an effort to seek out these posts to further the understanding of guitarists at large. I wouldn't want anyone to pass by one of these instruments because they thought the finish might be too thick. I mean really, this is all for public benefit. I won't be here forever, but these words might.

And these Benedetto Guilds are superb.

That's why the last GBJS up for sale at Elderly for 7.2k USD sold in less than 2 days. It was Opulent brown, one of these least desirable colors.

Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith Award Archtop Guitar (2005)
– Elderly Instruments


I'm so glad I get to play them.

[jads57]

I’ve not had a chance to demo many original Guild Archtops. Only the more recent Artist Award models. And while nice the necks were quite smallish and I was not as impressed as I was with many Johnny Smith Gibsons.

Again this so subjective,and I’m also not a fan of most Heritage Archtops either with a few exceptions. I do however feel many of the newer Archtop luthiers Mark Campellone,Bill Comins,Ted Megas, John Buscarino , Frans Elferink,and many others as well. Make some great guitars,and are fairly priced in the used market.

[58flame]

I’ve not had a chance to demo many original Guild Archtops. Only the more recent Artist Award models. And while nice the necks were quite smallish and I was not as impressed as I was with many Johnny Smith Gibsons.

Again this so subjective,and I’m also not a fan of most Heritage Archtops either with a few exceptions. I do however feel many of the newer Archtop luthiers Mark Campellone,Bill Comins,Ted Megas, John Buscarino , Frans Elferink,and many others as well. Make some great guitars,and are fairly priced in the used market.

The necks on both of my Guild Benedettos are larger than my 1969 Gibson Johnny Smith. I like them all. The most important feature to me is that the necks are flat on the back. All are. The Gibson is thinner front to back.

[jads57]

Do they have the same nut width and shoulder depth as well? Just curious because that can make a huge difference in actual feel.
Im a neurotic left handed guitarist playing righty, Lol



“Top that that’s thinner than Donald Trumps Skin” LOVE THAT!

[58flame]

Do they have the same nut width and shoulder depth as well? Just curious because that can make a huge difference in actual feel.
Im a neurotic left handed guitarist playing righty, Lol





“Top that that’s thinner than Donald Trumps Skin” LOVE THAT!

One GB is 1.74" and the other is 1.69" by my dial calipers. I can't measure the depth right now as strings are on them. Both necks are about the same D shape.

[jaymen]

Guild made fine guitars, back when. Today they are Asian imports, heavy finishes, not a lot of figured wood, and the electronics, well, most people replace them.

The classic era for Guild was when they still had the Open Book peghead design, which was a little different than Gibson, but very elegant.
The early Johnny Smith with P-90s, pictured several posts up, is a classic example of when Guild made good looking guitars.

Their current peghead design is obtuse, big and clumsy looking. Sort of like the current re-designed Epiphone peg heads seen on the Broadway, Regent, and Sheraton, which are too big and odd looking. Epiphone however, does make some of their guitars with the older peghead shape, which is nice.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Guild made fine guitars, back when. Today they are Asian imports, heavy finishes, not a lot of figured wood, and the electronics, well, most people replace them.

The classic era for Guild was when they still had the Open Book peghead design, which was a little different than Gibson, but very elegant.
The early Johnny Smith with P-90s, pictured several posts up, is a classic example of when Guild made good looking guitars.

Their current peghead design is obtuse, big and clumsy looking. Sort of like the current re-designed Epiphone peg heads seen on the Broadway, Regent, and Sheraton, which are too big and odd looking. Epiphone however, does make some of their guitars with the older peghead shape, which is nice.

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