Incoming or better going to get

**deacon Mark** · 06-19-2024, 11:25 AM

Tomorrow if all goes well, I am going up to Chicago to buy Big Mikes Heritage Johnny Smith. I have played it a winner. Be glad to get one of his old friends then I can play tunes on it to send him videos. Will update tomorrow.

**Woody Sound** · 06-19-2024, 11:39 AM

I owned both the Gibson and Heritage versions. At least with my examples, I thought the Heritage was a far superior guitar. In build, playability, and sound.

**deacon Mark** · 06-19-2024, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

I owned both the Gibson and Heritage versions. At least with my examples, I thought the Heritage was a far superior guitar. In build, playability, and sound.

No question like you I have owned both and have a Sunburst HJS now. Far better guitars than Gibson version except when you get one of the better GJS.

**andrew** · 06-19-2024, 01:12 PM

I wonder if they have his '39 L-5 with the Charlie Christian and P90 added. I also wonder how steep the going rate on that would be...

EDIT: Never mind. Looks like that one is up online at Butler Music for $25k along with two other L5s of Mike's.

**2bornot2bop** · 06-19-2024, 02:51 PM

I counted about 12 of BM’s guitars on eBay. Some are overpriced some underpriced. It’s a mixed bag.

**deacon Mark** · 06-20-2024, 04:13 PM

Well, I just got it and brought into the house a great guitar I will give and update in a bit. Someone should buy the American Eagle for sale quite a guitar and rare never to be made again. It has a lot if gingerbread, but the great thing is that really it fits the situation. It is not the gawdy overdone pearl inlay that makes a guitar look like a cheap whore.

**RJVB** · 06-20-2024, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by andrew

EDIT: Never mind. Looks like that one is up online at Butler Music for $25k along with two other L5s of Mike's.

Sometimes this places feels so much like Instagram with a lot more text...

**deacon Mark** · 06-20-2024, 06:09 PM

So here it is a special thanks to Big Mike.
Incoming or better going to get-img_3186-jpg

Incoming or better going to get-img_3188-jpg

Incoming or better going to get-img_3189-jpg

Incoming or better going to get-img_3191-jpg

**mr. beaumont** · 06-20-2024, 08:56 PM

I always loved that guitar. Wish I would have own you were going, would have had you say hi to Big Mike for me.

**deacon Mark** · 06-20-2024, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I always loved that guitar. Wish I would have own you were going, would have had you say hi to Big Mike for me.

Actually, i went to the music store that bought his guitars, I did not have time to stop to see Mike. Traffic in Chicago worst in nation. Had I had to go during rush hours would have added at least an hour to the drive.

**mr. beaumont** · 06-20-2024, 10:24 PM

I didn't realize he was getting rid of guitars...hope all is well.

Chicago traffic is bad, but I've driven in LA.

**2bornot2bop** · 06-21-2024, 11:22 AM

Congratulations Deacon! That’s one special JS!!!

**deacon Mark** · 06-21-2024, 11:35 AM

This particular Heritage was Jay Wolfe's personal guitar and he ordered it with the upgrade Rose inlay pickguard and fancy fiddle back. It is very warm and resonate sounding reminds me and sounds a bit like my 1979 Barker guitar. The pickup is custom wound and is dead silent very dry sounding. I like it for sure.

**Marty Grass** · 06-21-2024, 08:35 PM

I know the guitar well. Here's a bit of the back story.

Once upon a time, Heritage was new and trying to penetrate the market. The builders were all experienced in their craft. JP Moats was the wood sourcer for Gibson for many years. He helped found Heritage.

Now we jump ahead a few years. Jay Wolfe had been a Gibson dealer long term. Jay said that Gibson was selling the most attractive stuff to Asia, and the prices were going way up. He tried a few Heritages for his store and liked them. After a year or two, Jay was the biggest purchaser from Heritage, around 1989.

A little before that, Johnny Smith was unhappy with Gibson's production of his model. He broke up with Gibson. Johnny knew JP Moats. Around 1990, Johnny began collaborating with Heritage for Johnny's new model. I know from the Heritage builders that Johnny was very particular about materials, bracing, and appearance. They worked it out. The Heritage Johnny Smith appeared in 1991, if I recall correctly.

Jay told me that JP Moats wanted Jay to get a HJS. Jay was not thrilled but not opposed. JP said he's collect the best woods and put them aside for this guitar. About a year later JP told Jay it was built and being shipped. Jay said it was just excellent. He played it twice in an orchestra but felt it was too good for gigging. He kept it in his vault with a few other guitars and rarely got it out. That vault contained some very fine instruments.

Jay sold this guitar as he was winding down toward retirement.

There is no question about the specialness of this particular instrument.

Deacon Mark mentioned the American Eagle. That too is a very well made instrument. The style may not appeal to all, but it is art and craft. The model was conceived when there was the release of American hostages, the economy was crap, Asian guitars were rising, Gibson moved out of Michigan, and American morale was sagging. This guitar was a tribute what was achieved in this country.

The last addition the guitar was the Challenger shuttle on the pickguard. That exploded soon before the first American Eagle was built. When it was built and about to go to a show to display Heritage products, Maudie Moore (inlay master) said you guys can't leave the pickguard empty. After some though, Marv said put the space shuttle on it. Maudie did.

That's more information than you want, I'm sure.

**andrew** · 06-21-2024, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Marty Grass

I know the guitar well. Here's a bit of the back story.

Once upon a time, Heritage was new and trying to penetrate the market. The builders were all experienced in their craft. JP Moats was the wood sourcer for Gibson for many years. He helped found Heritage.

Now we jump ahead a few years. Jay Wolfe had been a Gibson dealer long term. Jay said that Gibson was selling the most attractive stuff to Asia, and the prices were going way up. He tried a few Heritages for his store and liked them. After a year or two, Jay was the biggest purchaser from Heritage, around 1989.

A little before that, Johnny Smith was unhappy with Gibson's production of his model. He broke up with Gibson. Johnny knew JP Moats. Around 1990, Johnny began collaborating with Heritage for Johnny's new model. I know from the Heritage builders that Johnny was very particular about materials, bracing, and appearance. They worked it out. The Heritage Johnny Smith appeared in 1991, if I recall correctly.

Jay told me that JP Moats wanted Jay to get a HJS. Jay was not thrilled but not opposed. JP said he's collect the best woods and put them aside for this guitar. About a year later JP told Jay it was built and being shipped. Jay said it was just excellent. He played it twice in an orchestra but felt it was too good for gigging. He kept it in his vault with a few other guitars and rarely got it out. That vault contained some very fine instruments.

Jay sold this guitar as he was winding down toward retirement.

There is no question about the specialness of this particular instrument.

Deacon Mark mentioned the American Eagle. That too is a very well made instrument. The style may not appeal to all, but it is art and craft. The model was conceived when there was the release of American hostages, the economy was crap, Asian guitars were rising, Gibson moved out of Michigan, and American morale was sagging. This guitar was a tribute what was achieved in this country.

The last addition the guitar was the Challenger shuttle on the pickguard. That exploded soon before the first American Eagle was built. When it was built and about to go to a show to display Heritage products, Maudie Moore (inlay master) said you guys can't leave the pickguard empty. After some though, Marv said put the space shuttle on it. Maudie did.

That's more information than you want, I'm sure.

That's an awesome story. It just goes to show how talented and how committed to the craft the old guard at Heritage was. I just so happen to have recently purchased another Heritage that was made for Jay personally and had been in his vault for over 20 years. Let me tell you, when they wanted to, they could certainly pull out all the stops.

**customxke** · 06-21-2024, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by andrew

I wonder if they have his '39 L-5 with the Charlie Christian and P90 added. I also wonder how steep the going rate on that would be...

EDIT: Never mind. Looks like that one is up online at Butler Music for $25k along with two other L5s of Mike's.

Mike beat me to the punch on that, and it went for $6k. Butlers asking price is absurd.

**Marklin678** · 06-22-2024, 03:37 AM

Looks beautiful, lovely finish. Big congrats and happy NGD.

**RJVB** · 06-22-2024, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Marty Grass

The last addition the guitar was the Challenger shuttle on the pickguard. That exploded soon before the first American Eagle was built.

Hmmm, so at that time the reasons of the explosion hadn't yet been elucidated - those aren't exactly a tribute to anything good about "America"...
(More TMI: Richard Feynman describes the inquiry quite vividly in his autobiographic "What do you care what others think". An interesting read.)

**Marty Grass** · 06-22-2024, 07:18 AM

I love the heel carve on the guitar. You can get your thumb very close to the fretboard, which extends your finger reach for high frets. Not all archtops have heels like that. Not all Heritages do, in fact.

**Marty Grass** · 06-22-2024, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by RJVB

Hmmm, so at that time the reasons of the explosion hadn't yet been elucidated - those aren't exactly a tribute to anything good about "America"...
(More TMI: Richard Feynman describes the inquiry quite vividly in his autobiographic "What do you care what others think". An interesting read.)

I'm familiar with the O rings. I was at work in a pediatric ward when all of us watched the launch. It was traumatic. The teacher and the professional astronauts died in front of the nation and the world.

What followed five hours later was Reagan's speech that targeted the 8 year olds and the 80 year olds as well. It honored the explorer.

https://www.reaganfoundation.org/med...challenger.pdf

The mission absolutely did honor the astronauts and those who chose to explore space as a mission. But you are right. The decision to launch at that time and those temperatures was a bureaucrat's failure, a shameful one. It was really a chain of bad decisions that led to failure. I believe the shuttle inlay was not to there to glorify the tragedy but rather the continued committment to learn from mistakes and pursue the course, which was expressed by NASA soon after the disaster.

If I designed the guitar, I'd have been more traditional. I can't picture Joe Pass or George Benson playing out with it. I will say that our own RhoadsScholar (RIP) did play out with his. He's the only one I know of.