Bruce Forman's list of 10 tunes for beginners

**princeplanet** · 06-07-2018, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

This well known site offers some audio samples for each tune and also recommends some definitive recordings, plus other great resources.

Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals Contents

Just for fun, here's another side of Bruce...

Hey Cosmic, Yeah I know that site, do you think though that the links there to important versions might favour vocal versions? Like Nat King Cole's Autumn Leaves? Maybe I should check it out again...

**MarkRhodes** · 06-07-2018, 03:58 PM

In the other (more recent) podcast, Bruce mentions Miles, Louis Armstrong, Ella, and Sinatra as great recordings to check out. There may have been a few others. Nat Cole was a great singer.

When learning a tune, it's best to hear versions that "get the melody right." Ella and Frank were good at that the first time through a chorus. Miles was great with melodies, really made them sing.

**jonbo** · 06-07-2018, 05:07 PM

thanks and yes I couldn't help butting in on this one as the tunes are so mega.

**sgosnell** · 06-07-2018, 08:16 PM

Another singer who sang the melody correctly was Linda Ronstadt. She is one of my absolute favorites for standards, as well as lots of other styles. Her inability to continue to sing was a great loss to the world.

**starjasmine** · 06-08-2018, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by plasticpigeon

I can't fathom that website's name. Wank is not a particularly complimentary word over in the UK, does it mean something different in the US? They wank poetically on all things guitar! Do they mean wax poetically?

I think it's intended to be humorous. These guys are serious musicians who don't take themselves too seriously. And the podcast is pretty free-form, just... wankin' on whatever comes to mind!

At least that's my impression from the one podcast I listened to.

**starjasmine** · 06-08-2018, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by Groyniad

mark - that vid doesn't work - i went on youtube to find it - and couldn't

any chance of a re-post? i'd like to hear some of his earlier stuff

It's also on Amazon Prime if you have that. Oddly, three tracks are missing. When I tried to find out why, I got passed from one clueless customer service rep to another till I gave up. Usually Amazon is pretty headsup, but this experience was the exception.

====

Update: I was referring to "Chasin the Blues" - I can't see the other vid @MarkRhodes posted, either.

**grahambop** · 06-08-2018, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by starjasmine

I think it's intended to be humorous. These guys are serious musicians who don't take themselves too seriously. And the podcast is pretty free-form, just... wankin' on whatever comes to mind!

At least that's my impression from the one podcast I listened to.

yeah that always amuses me too. Lest there be any doubt, in the UK the absolute primary meaning of 'wank' is 'to masturbate' and it will always be understood that way over here.

From other online useages and references I have seen, it does not seem that in the USA it has that primary meaning exactly. More like 'pointless talking' perhaps.

**MarkRhodes** · 06-08-2018, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by grahambop

yeah that always amuses me too. Lest there be any doubt, in the UK the absolute primary meaning of 'wank' is 'to masturbate' and it will always be understood that way over here.

From other online useages and references I have seen, it does not seem that in the USA it has that primary meaning exactly. More like 'pointless talking' perhaps.

Maybe pointless masturbatory talk about guitar....

Bruce Forman's list of 10 tunes for beginners

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**cosmic gumbo** · 06-09-2018, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

yeah that always amuses me too. Lest there be any doubt, in the UK the absolute primary meaning of 'wank' is 'to masturbate' and it will always be understood that way over here.

From other online useages and references I have seen, it does not seem that in the USA it has that primary meaning exactly. More like 'pointless talking' perhaps.

In the US, the wanking/masturbation reference is applied with the context of doing something strictly for your own pleasure/enjoyment, without regard for anyone else, totally self-indulgent. e.g. "His guitar solo was only wanking". The discussion turned into "guitar wank".

It's not pointless, it's for the complete enjoyment of the wanker.

**grahambop** · 06-09-2018, 06:07 AM

Yes we have the ‘wanking guitar solo’ useage over here too.

**joe2758** · 06-09-2018, 09:42 AM

it’s all bollocks though innit every geeza’s gunna wank and it’s cushtie

**grahambop** · 06-09-2018, 12:27 PM

I can tell you’ve been studying for the UK Citizenship Test.

**joe2758** · 06-09-2018, 12:47 PM

did i do good Graham!?

**joe2758** · 06-09-2018, 12:48 PM

We say wank in America, but I think it’s MUCH more British than American

**matcarsa** · 06-09-2018, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

In the other (more recent) podcast, Bruce mentions Miles, Louis Armstrong, Ella, and Sinatra as great recordings to check out. There may have been a few others. Nat Cole was a great singer.

When learning a tune, it's best to hear versions that "get the melody right." Ella and Frank were good at that the first time through a chorus. Miles was great with melodies, really made them sing.

Agree. Nat King Cole or Sarah Vaughan also sing melody quite close to the leadsheet.

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**MarkRhodes** · 06-09-2018, 02:10 PM

Curious note: in "The B Side: The Fall of Tin Pan Alley and the Rebirth of the Great American Song" it is written that when Miles Davis was asked where he learned to phrase the way he does that he answered, Sinatra.

**christianm77** · 06-09-2018, 02:36 PM

Bollocks

**MarkRhodes** · 06-09-2018, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Bollocks

If you're talking about the Miles Davis remark about learning phrasing from Sinatra, the source for it is Keith Jarrett in an interview he gave NPR.

**christianm77** · 06-09-2018, 03:19 PM

Keith Jarrett is a numpty*

*this is a joke

**grahambop** · 06-09-2018, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by joe2758

did i do good Graham!?

with lingo like that mate you could pass for the Duke of Edinburgh and no mistake.

**jazzaxe** · 12-06-2018, 03:31 AM

re: wanking, don't overlook the fact that Troy MacCubbin is an Australian... he DEFINITELY knows the true meaning of wank

**guitarbuddy** · 12-06-2018, 03:47 PM

The computer ate my longer reply, so I'm going to keep it short. Bruce has very high expectations if he's putting tunes like All the Things You Are on a beginner's list. I'd scrap about half those and replace them with tunes like Blue Bossa and Dearly Beloved, ones that stay in a couple of keys at most.

**coolvinny** · 12-06-2018, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by guitarbuddy

The computer ate my longer reply, so I'm going to keep it short. Bruce has very high expectations if he's putting tunes like All the Things You Are on a beginner's list. I'd scrap about half those and replace them with tunes like Blue Bossa and Dearly Beloved, ones that stay in a couple of keys at most.

I hear you...there is some logic in keeping the initial list to easy tunes. But on the other hand getting comfortable with changes and starting to build that "tune muscle" can, in my experience, really benefit from learning some more challenging tunes early on. One of the first tunes I learned in all keys was Confirmation. Crazy? Maybe...but then again maybe there's a connection between that and the fact that I subsequently found it very easy to learn new tunes. And I still do. Furthermore, ATTYA is not really very hard; 1625's, some key changes, yeah ok it's not easy but part of learning jazz is learning that stuff that might seem really hard is not actually that hard - like 1625 or descending half step resolutions. Learning to simplify, thinking in chunks of the form, etc. Some of the really easy tunes don't really help in learning future tunes IMO.

**man-argentina** · 12-06-2018, 11:04 PM

Any have a clue what they play at the beggining of the audio ? The two guitars playing the same lick sounds like a standard rather than just a jam.

**rmpmcdermott** · 12-07-2018, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by man-argentina

Any have a clue what they play at the beggining of the audio ? The two guitars playing the same lick sounds like a standard rather than just a jam.

That's the GuitarWank theme song, played at the beginning of every episode. I always just thought it was something Bruce and Scott wrote. It actually sounds like a Bruce lick with Scott doing his whammy bar thing over it.