Playing melody in thirds, fourths, etc.

[Tal_175]

Ironically faster tempos are a little easier when it comes to comping I think. A couple of voicings per chord, chromatic approaches, guide tones, even just leaving space here and there work well.

Ballads on the other hand are a different story.

[Reg]

hey Allen... yea I made quick vid... but wouldn't load and had to split....
back now and had to post vid on my youtube site to download on JGF...

Anyway here is quick example I made earlier. I'll make a few more. I don't really need to practice this stuff, it's what I do'

So yes... I have tonal targets, but what helps make thing lock etc.... is what you use to approach and imply the tonal Targets.

Tal... tempos really don't make any difference... you either understand what your doing and have the skills... or you don't. It's not that difficult.

[pamosmusic]

Anyway here is quick example I made earlier. I'll make a few more. I don't really need to practice this stuff, it's what I do'

What would you suggest for someone who does need to practice this stuff?

Tal... tempos really don't make any difference... you either understand what your doing and have the skills... or you don't. It's not that difficult.

And I think Tal just means that there higher rhythmic density at lower tempos. Lots more space to fill and more of an expectation that an accompanist fill it. Faster tempos space is more welcome.

[AllanAllen]

Reg I’m having trouble bridging the gap between what I do now and what I’m missing. Like Peter asked, what should I add to my practice? Adding a V or ii V to approach the next chord?

I know I won’t play like this, just what to practice to get technical chops up.

[Bobby Timmons]

^ Play the inversions to the basic chords on the page god damn it.

After that play the inversions with scale notes on top.

This is how you get your chord chops up.

The beginning basis isn't calculus with adding a bunch of changes, although some of that vocab will obviously be involved as part of the process, especially for guitar.

I'll make a video.

[pamosmusic]

^ Play the inversions to the basic chords on the page god damn it.

After that play the inversions with scale notes on top.

This is how you get your chord chops up.

The beginning basis isn't calculus with adding a bunch of changes, although some of that vocab will obviously be involved as part of the process, especially for guitar.

I'll make a video.

For what it’s worth, this isn’t quite as straightforward on guitar. I think what Jeff is suggesting maps onto this well. Third and seventh on the D and G strings to start with several available melody notes on the B or E string. It works the same way you’re talking about here.

[ragman1]

He requested that, since this was our first gig without a drummer.

.... :-)

[Bobby Timmons]

For what it’s worth, this isn’t quite as straightforward on guitar. I think what Jeff is suggesting maps onto this well. Third and seventh on the D and G strings to start with several available melody notes on the B or E string. It works the same way you’re talking about here.

I agree. That's probably the correct beginning approach to mobility in comping or chording on guitar.

[Tal_175]

Reg I’m having trouble bridging the gap between what I do now and what I’m missing. Like Peter asked, what should I add to my practice? Adding a V or ii V to approach the next chord?

I know I won’t play like this, just what to practice to get technical chops up.

He is simply using the common, mostly root in the bass voicings and approaching them with dominants. Nothing complex as he says. There are slight variations each time he plays but they are mostly the same.

Here I transcribed part of it for you. Actual changes are in boldface, the lines below the actual changes are what he plays:

| Gmaj7 | Gmaj7 | Gmin7 | C7 |

| Gmaj6 D7#9 Gmaj7| D7#9 Abmin7| Gmin7 Abdim (ie G7b9) | C7b13#9 C7b13 Gbmaj6|

| Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 | F-7 | Bb7|

| Fmaj6 C7sus C7b13 | Fmaj6 Gb9 | Fmin9 Fmin11 | Bb13 Bb7b13 |

| Ebmaj7 | Amin7b5 D7 | Gmin7 | ...

| Eb6 Eb713(*) | Amin11 Amin7b5 D7#9 | Gmin 7 ...

(*) He calls this blues. He does this a few times in the video. In bars where a maj7 chord is called, he plays a common Dom13 (technically dom7 6) voicing (in Eb):

x
4
5
5
4
x

That's your 7th, third, sixth and root.

So just pickup the Joe Pass chords book. Learn the voicings there. Practice targeting with dominants and parallel chromatic chords. This is pretty vanilla as Reg would also say.

[AllanAllen]

He is simply using the common, mostly root in the bass voicings and approaching them with dominants. Nothing complex as he says. There are slight variations each time he plays but they are mostly the same.

Here I transcribed part of it for you. Actual changes are in boldface, the lines below the actual changes are what he plays:

| Gmaj7 | Gmaj7 | Gmin7 | C7 |

| Gmaj6 D7#9 Gmaj7| D7#9 Abmin7| Gmin7 Abdim (ie G7b9) | C7b13#9 C7b13 Gbmaj6|

| Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 | F-7 | Bb7|

| Fmaj6 C7sus C7b13 | Fmaj6 Gb9 | Fmin9 Fmin11 | Bb13 Bb7b13 |

| Ebmaj7 | Amin7b5 D7 | Gmin7 | ...

| Eb6 Eb713(*) | Amin11 Amin7b5 D7#9 | Gmin 7 ...

(*) He calls this blues. He does this a few times in the video. In bars where a maj7 chord is called, he plays a common Dom13 (technically dom7 6) voicing (in Eb):

x
4
5
5
4
x

That's your 7th, third, sixth and root.

So just pickup the Joe Pass chords book. Learn the voicings there. Practice targeting with dominants and parallel chromatic chords. This is pretty vanilla as Reg would also say.

Thanks man!

I looked at the Joe Pass book and it was just a bunch of chord diagrams. I already spent months mapping out my own diagrams and learning a bunch of inversions I don't use. I'm not exactly eager to do it all over again.... I'll try working though the progressions in the back.

[AllanAllen]

It’s become apparent I can’t just skip to the back of the Joe Pass book. LOL

[Mick-7]

As I recall, the Joe Pass Guitar Style book originally came with a cassette tape in which Joe plays the examples from the book. In fact, I may still have it, but I don't think I have a functioning cassette player now to transfer the recording to mp3.

P.S. - I found the cassette and a player to play it, now just have to remember how to transfer it to my pc - it's coming back to me.

[pamosmusic]

Don’t worry Jeff.

They all find their way back to the shells.

[mr. beaumont]

It'll be all good.

I'm just loving that Buddy Tate record right now...thanks Tal 175.

[Tal_175]

It'll be all good.

I'm just loving that Buddy Tate record right now...thanks Tal 175.

Glad to hear that. That album is just mesmerizing.

[AllanAllen]

Where the voicings were apparent Jeff’s stuff sounded nice. I dunno, too much advice and material all at once. I feel lost… time to learn this weeks 2 bars of Donna Lee.

[Bobby Timmons]

I feel lost.

They're out of control. You need to listen to me.

[pamosmusic]

They're out of control. You need to listen to me.

Lol by which you mean:

I agree. That's probably the correct beginning approach to mobility in comping or chording on guitar.

or: “listen to Jeff.”

[AllanAllen]

I feel like I am listening to Jeff. His video was closer to what I think I’m working on than Reg’s. But maybe it’s just that Jeff explained whats happening in more detail.

I really think I just need to sort out a system by woodshedding and practicing with another musician, then in a year I’ll be fine.

[Bobby Timmons]

Lol by which you mean:

or: “listen to Jeff.”

Yes, if you both are saying the starting point for chording with movement would be to put the 3rd and 7th on the 4th and 3rd string and then use the 2nd and 1st string for melody movement, then I agree with you:

Ok, good starting point.

now, what if you ditch the notes on the fifth or sixth string and try to create some voice leading (or, keep a common voice) on the second string (or first)?

So like:

x x 3 5 5 x
x x 3 4 5 x
x x 5 4 5 x

(Dm9, G13, Cmaj7)

or:

x x 3 5 5 x
x x 3 4 4 x
x x 2 2 3 x

(Dm9, G7b13 ( or Db9), C6/9)

This is still vanilla, mind you, but this is the better vanilla.

Then get at the rhythmic ideas Peter is talking about with this...

For what it’s worth, this isn’t quite as straightforward on guitar. I think what Jeff is suggesting maps onto this well. Third and seventh on the D and G strings to start with several available melody notes on the B or E string. It works the same way you’re talking about here.

It's extremely important for a beginner to understand that step 1 for getting out of the 1 root position shape you know for each chord and creating chordal movement for comping or other uses is not reharmonize the damn song. All you do is voice the exact same chords that are written on the page in a way that rises and falls with your melody note.

[pamosmusic]

Yes, if you both are saying the starting point for chording with movement would be to put the 3rd and 7th on the 4th and 3rd string and then use the 2nd and 1st string for melody movement, then I agree with you:

Well yes it is. Although I guess I also said side slipping and copping rhythms from pianists.

OUT OF CONTROL.

[Bobby Timmons]

Come at me bro.

[pamosmusic]

Come at me bro.

Bro.

I already did.

[pamosmusic]

A cage match over nothing is my favorite kind of cage match.

[AllanAllen]

Side stepping isn’t much of a reharm. on guitar. Just sliding into home.