I'm going down with the ship

**Clint 55** · 10-07-2021, 03:33 PM

Gonna practice Blue Monk in all 24 keys until I'm proficient lol. It sounds pretty good minor. Sounds like an old skool dirgey jazz tune. Playing the melody with the 3rds so that makes it more of a pain.

**A. Kingstone** · 10-07-2021, 07:15 PM

Don't cheap out and just play it on the G & B strings.

Take it up and down octaves.

**pcjazz** · 10-07-2021, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by A. Kingstone

Don't cheap out and just play it on the G & B strings.

Take it up and down octaves.

and try some alternate tunings!

**Clint 55** · 10-07-2021, 08:08 PM

Thx, I forgot to mention it's on organ.

**A. Kingstone** · 10-07-2021, 08:34 PM

That will be much more difficult. Guitar transposition is way easier.

That should be a great exercise!

**Clint 55** · 10-07-2021, 09:49 PM

Yep! I have been working the non real book major keys of A, B, D, E, Gb and am getting comfortable in all the major keys. I realized I haven't played in a lot of the minor keys like ever. I decided I have to get it done and work out absolutely all 24 keys with at least 1 song.

**TOMMO** · 10-08-2021, 02:51 AM

It's fun on slide or lap steel as well!

**AllanAllen** · 10-08-2021, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by A. Kingstone

Don't cheap out and just play it on the G & B strings.

Take it up and down octaves.

That's interesting, I must be playing it in the wrong octave on the A and D strings. I really should post more videos so you guys can tell my what I learned wrong.

**A. Kingstone** · 10-08-2021, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

That's interesting, I must be playing it in the wrong octave on the A and D strings. I really should post more videos so you guys can tell my what I learned wrong.

Maybe I'm just lazy wanting to bar the Major Thirds.

**Clint 55** · 10-08-2021, 09:01 PM

I don't want this thing to take forever, but I don't think there's a shortcut. So I'm going to spend 1 day per major and relative minor. Blue Monk in C and A minor, woohoo. Been doing a little piano.

**Clint 55** · 10-09-2021, 02:38 AM

I think this is the ticket. I've tried several all key regimens. Plowing thru all the keys in a short time isn't possible to make progress. The 1 key a month on the standards thread or 1 key per week takes forever. Today I got my Blue Monk done in C and A minor then was able to transpose Autumn Leaves into A minor and Willow Weep For Me into C. Plus Summertime which is already in A minor. Gonna just play in 1 key plus the relative minor each day. It's kinda fun actually. Tomorrow is Db and Bb minor.

**Clint 55** · 10-09-2021, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

That's interesting, I must be playing it in the wrong octave on the A and D strings. I really should post more videos so you guys can tell my what I learned wrong.

What's going on with your Blue Monk? Can't you usually play the head in about 2 different octaves for guitar?

**Christian Miller** · 10-09-2021, 04:09 AM

10ths

**Christian Miller** · 10-09-2021, 05:12 AM

Also if you play it in block chords it’s nice. Use a biiio7 for the chromatic note and your golden.

What Alan calls ‘monk moves’

As I use these all the time in my comping, all 12 keys is a nice one.

In minor - note sure how that would work lol

**Reg** · 10-09-2021, 10:35 AM

So Clint... the Diatonic relative version of Blue Monk or any tune... is not really like playing in a different key, right.

Almost any tune can be played in a diatonic relative mode. (or even Parallel mode(s)).

So the Amin version is still in Cmaj. If you played in Cmin. the key would change.

It's fairly common to play tunes in relative or parallel modes. (at gigs, depending on musicians)

I would practicing playing tunes, for example your Blue Monk In Cmaj and Cmin. might be a better approach. You'll be getting 2 keys for the price of one, LOL. Would help in learning how to transpose both diatonically as well as modally. Which usually involves slight changes in melodies etc...

It's usually a good idea to learn and understand a melodies relationships with the harmony. Makes transposing much easier... and faster. You don't have to spend a lifetime memorizing melodies in all keys. It just becomes mechanical, like plug and play.

**Clint 55** · 10-09-2021, 12:24 PM

Reg, that's just incorrect. For Blue Monk in C major I play C7, F7, and G7 for the 1,4, and 5 chords. I have a D-7 for the 2, and I use an A7 for the 6. I use other embellishments, but those are the main ones.

For A minor, I'm tonicizing the A- and there's also a minor 2 - 5 in it. Have a B half dim and E7 alt which doesn't occur in the major diatonic key. Plus I do other things differently like use a Fmaj7 in front of the E7 for a turnaround. I also play the melody differently so it's related because it's the relative minor, but it's still completely different. I thought about doing parallel minors, but prefer it this way.

**Clint 55** · 10-09-2021, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

In minor - note sure how that would work lol

That should be a g natural at the end, sorry.

I'm going down with the ship-captura-jpg

**Christian Miller** · 10-09-2021, 04:26 PM

Yeah you just play the bass in C major as the melody and find a new harmony that starts on A…. Checks out

**Clint 55** · 10-09-2021, 04:55 PM

Yep, I have a couple different variations for either the harmony or the melody. I have a more chromatic sounding version which I wrote here. And a more neutral, diatonic sounding version. The diatonic version of this, for the first 2 riffs I skip the b2 on the harmony and go a,b,c,c and d,e,f,f while keeping the top notes the same. A chromatic variation for bar 5-6 on the melody I go f,g,g#,a then a,b,c,c# up to the minor major 7 of d-. Basically in my thinking there are only about 2 rational choices for the melody or harmony at all times.

**Clint 55** · 10-09-2021, 04:57 PM

Reg, I forgot to add that I'm on keys. So you're right that once you get the transposing concepts down on guitar, it's mostly plug and play. But on keys you have to spend lots of time in each key to get it because the fingerings are all different.

**Reg** · 10-10-2021, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Clint 55

Reg, that's just incorrect. For Blue Monk in C major I play C7, F7, and G7 for the 1,4, and 5 chords. I have a D-7 for the 2, and I use an A7 for the 6. I use other embellishments, but those are the main ones.

For A minor, I'm tonicizing the A- and there's also a minor 2 - 5 in it. Have a B half dim and E7 alt which doesn't occur in the major diatonic key. Plus I do other things differently like use a Fmaj7 in front of the E7 for a turnaround. I also play the melody differently so it's related because it's the relative minor, but it's still completely different. I thought about doing parallel minors, but prefer it this way.

Hi Clint... last time I checked, there's no C7 or F7 in Cmaj. My point is A- is the diatonic relative Min of Cmaj. The Diatonic and harmonic references are musically organized from same set of notes. Basic Maj/ Min functional harmony.

When one harmonically goes from Cmaj (Imaj) to Amin (VI-), traditionally you would use the same key sig. and the standard chord changes are adjusted to keep Major harmonic Function.... So yes the chords and melody change, but generally still thought of as Relative Min. of Cmaj and same key sig.

But If your approach works for you... cool, best of luck.

So take your version of Blue monk in C. Play it in Cmin Dorian, not Cnat min. Where I'm going is... If you learn the tune and understand the melody with relationship to the chords and what the Function of the chords are in context of the tune. It becomes fairly simple to play the tune in any key or mode without going through the process of memorizing every key.

When you play a blues tune, it's simple to play in any key, right. hummm Well maybe not, Blue Monk is a Blues tune.

Disregard my posts, I apologize...

**Clint 55** · 10-10-2021, 12:35 PM

Hi Reg, last time I checked, no jazz tune in its entire history has ever been played with only diatonic chords or scales lmao!

Give it a rest with trying to assert academic superiority. I mastered basic theory, plus a working knowledge of how to apply jazz theory on top of that in about 2007 at the end of my college music studies.

The fact that C and A- share a key signature does not mean they're the same key! Even if you played everything diatonically, you'd still have to approach things differently in how you treat each chord and scale. But everything isn't played diatonically. The 2-5s are completely different. You have to spend time in each key to get them for keyboard instruments. If you know fingerings and ideas for D-7 G7 C, you're not automatically going to know fingerings and ideas for B half dim, E7 alt, A-!! Quit being silly!!

**Reg** · 10-10-2021, 06:45 PM

Hey Clint... I'm just trying help with a different approach to help be able to transpose and play tunes in different keys as well as different modes. Without having to learn every tune in every Key and mode.

Sounds like you already have it together... my mistake.

**Clint 55** · 10-11-2021, 01:34 AM

No prob. I'm only doing this 1 tune to spend time in every key because of the different fingerings for keyboard. I can do 1 off transpositions fine, they don't take me an inordinate amount of time.

**rpjazzguitar** · 10-11-2021, 03:00 AM

The issue about how to play tunes in any key without trying to memorize formulae is an important one.

As I've posted before, I'm convinced that players who know a zillion tunes actually memorize the tune the same way any non-musician does. They can hum the melody, or sing the words. They'll even know the harmony -- they must, because they can tell a wrong chord from the right one.

What the musician then brings is the ability to hear the tune in his mind, same as anybody else, and then find the notes he needs on the instrument. He does that by sound and, when he's got it going, it will feel like his fingers go to the right place without being told. Or her.

So, the question is, how do you develop that? I'm no expert but I've noticed this. If the chord is, say, F#m7b5 and there is a C in the melody, my hand will go to xx7978 automatically. For some reason, that relationship between chord and melody is very obvious to my ear. I can do it with a b7 in a 7 chord and many others, but not as many as I'd like. I think that it may come with practice, which, as laborious as it can be, I do with Irealpro in every key, moving by 4ths, not half steps.

Reg, is this the sort of thing you were referring to?