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Let’s take the intervals in semitones from C to C of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C
+2 +2 +1 +2+2 +2+1
The backbone of C «positive» C major scale is the perfect fifth interval C-G
Take his mirror interval: G-C: it’s the backbone interval of the negative C major scale
The mirror of the C major scale,his negative counterpart, will be descending from G to G ,via C:
G F Eb D C Bb Ab G
-2 -2 -1 -2 -2 -2 -1 (negative intervals in semitone)
The negative seven-chords of -C major scale
I construction of the first seven-chord of the -C major scale
First seven-chord of Cmaj scale (+) = Cmaj7: C E G B
+4 +3 +4 = ascending intervals in semitone between the notes
First degree negative seven-chord:
From G, called «the first generative tone»,take the same intervals,but negative,and descending:
G Eb C Ab = -first degree seven-chordof -C negative scale
-4 -3 -4
To find the Tonic of this first chord, we have now to put in order the seven negative degree of the -C negative major scale:
-C -Bb -Ab -G -F -Eb -D
-I° -II° -III° -IV° -V° -VI° -VII°
the first note is C, the Tonic of this first negative chord
It gives: G Eb C Ab ; in order C Eb G Ab = Cmb6
5 b3 T b6
II construction of the second seven-chord of the -C major scale
Second seven-chord of C major scale Dm7 D F A C
+3 +4 +3 =ascending intervals in semitone between the notes
Second degree negative seven-chord:
G F Eb D C Bb Ab G
the second generative tone of -C major scale is F
to construct the second chord we’ll take the same intervals in semitone beginning from F ,but negative and descending:
F D Bb G = -second degree seven-chord of C negative scale
-3 -4 -3
To find the Tonic of this second chord,take again the seven negative degree of the -C negative major scale:
-C -Bb -Ab -G -F -Eb -D
-I° -II° -III° -IV° -V° -VI° -VII°
The second note is Bb,the Tonic of this second negative chord
It gives: F D Bb G ; in order Bb D G F =Bb6
6 3 T 5
If you do the same for each seven -chords,you’ll obtain:
-I Cmb6
-II Bb6
-III Ab6
-IV Gmb6
-V Fm6
-VI Eb
-VII Ddim6
Do that for the others Majors scales,Db,DEb,E..
Seven-chords of Positive scales: Imaj7 IIm IIIm IVmaj V7 VIm VIIm7b5
Seven-chords of Negative scales: Imb6 bVII6 bVI6 Vmb6 IVm6 BIII6 IIdimb6
Application to ALL THE THINGS YOU ARE
Black: positiveHarmony
Green: negative harmony
Fm Bbm Eb7 Ab
B6 Gb6 Dbm6 Abmb6
Db G7 C C
Ebmb6 Fm6 Cmb6 Cmb6
Cm Fm Bb7 Eb
Gb6 Db6 Abm6 Ebmb6
Ab AmD7 G E7
Bbmb6 Cm6 Gmb6 Abm6
Am D7 G C
F6 Cm6 Gmb6 Dmb6
F#m7 B7 E C7
D6 Am6 Emb6 Db6
Fm Bbm Eb7 Ab
B6 Gb6 Dbm6 Abmb6
Db Dbm Gb7 Ab G7
Ebmb6 A6 Em6 Abmb6 Fm6
Bbm Eb7 Ab Ab
Gb6 Dbm6 Abmb6 Abmb6
cheers
Milou,alias Hyppolyte Bergamotte
Milou Jazz
- YouTube
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01-26-2018 09:00 AM
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Negative harmony is a dead meme :-)
But nice one, maybe take a look at that when I’ve worked out how to do positive harmony.
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This gives me negative brain
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Interesting - and I will look at that further. But I have to say, just listening to the clip, that doesn't sound like All the Things at all to me. And I'm not really sure exactly what it does sound like, or if, for me at least, it really works. I guess it has some sort of effect on the listener, but is it an attempt to create some new kind of functional harmony?, because if so, I just can't hear that happening in practice.
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So C maj negative scale is really just a C min scale? I think I've heard enough
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Hep to the jive
the negative major scale is’not a minor scale,read more carefully..
cheers
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It has 3 flats in it, just like C min. If G is a the root though, then it's G Phrygian I guess?
On on a side note, no offense, nice playing, but I'd never guess it's ATTYA.
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I never thought it was All the thing u are!
It is not made to be employed on each bars.My exemple was « exagerated «
My aim ,in fact,was to explain how to enter in a negative harmony
Musician like Herbie Hancock and others are mixing both harmonies in order to catch the listener ears ,spicing from Time to time bars of standards with negative harmony
cheers
Milou,aka HB
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Gotcha! Not trying to be negative btw... but prefer to stay positive
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Thanks for this. I have been curious about negative harmony.
It had been explained to me as being based on a pivot point, which could be any note. You used G in the key of C, but did it have to be G?
I'm going to try this in a jam this weekend. I'd like to hear the melody with those chords.
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I liked this rendition on the other thread. Listening again, I still like it. I think of it as "All the Things You Aren't." All those Sixths are suggestive, are they not? Thank you for making this very interesting demonstration.
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So, it appears you have a cumbersome method of arriving at the parallel minor. What differentiates the benefit of this?
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Originally Posted by Cunamara
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Well, that could be interesting.
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For what I learned,yes rpjazzguitar
the « pivot » or axis stay between the tonic and the dominant
cheers
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Originally Posted by Hyppolyte Bergamotte
In positive the tonic and generator are same notes in negative the tonic and generator are different notes. So Positive C Major = Negative G Major. Explaining why that is above my pay grade getting into overtones and undertones, mirror images and on and on.Last edited by docbop; 01-27-2018 at 01:44 PM.
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That’s why I’ve tried to explain negative harmony in this post,doc,with my limited resources .
If somebody can use it,that will be fine !
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Thank you for your nice playing and detailed post
One thing I can't catch about negative harmony is the realtions... I don't hear them... I mean I udnerstand the principle but I don't hear relations
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Originally Posted by Jonah
It has me thinking anyhow, which is good, and maybe my ears just need to get accustomed to the sounds...
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I know it’s a wrong way to think -and I have see many criticism about that by many respected musicians - but If you think that the first chord of the negative major scale is Abmaj7 in place of Cmb6,maybe you should feel more comfortable?
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Originally Posted by Hyppolyte Bergamotte
I find most only want to know enough so they can criticize it, not so they can experiment hear the sound. That's why these days I try to keep from posting or write the post and then delete like the other day. Negative/Symmetrical/Mirror harmony is like the Barry Harris stuff once you hear the sound, then you listen to music and hear it all the time. Plus Barry's b6 shhhh, that's from the negative scale, Barry hung with all those Beboppers and knows the sound.
You're doing more with negative chords, I'm need to work on that more. Since I'm in to improv I have mainly worked on negative scale for lines. So I can do as the old cats would say... "the wiggly sh1t" and the "pendulum".
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I don't mean to be negative, but is this a legitimate harmonic theory, or is it another snake oil description of something that either; (1) already exists, or (2) doesn't really stand up to fuller analysis?
Anyway, I'm almost positive that I've never heard of it.
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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
There are many names for what's popularly called Negative harmony and some say you can see it being used all the way back to Bach. Stand up to full analysis that don't mean crap, analysis by who, for what reason, theory is just people coming after the innovators/creators and hanging label on things so they can charge money to teach it.
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Very nice explanation HB! I’ve been wondering how this was put together, and you explained it very well! Very generous!!
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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
But, I do know this. The first time I heard of "negative harmony" it was in a lesson from a world class player, with a music degree from a respected institution, who was interested in it.
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