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Cant comment much. Just that I don't have a good feeling about Musescore.
edit: it is good that it's free. is it the only free one out there?
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03-31-2023 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by orri
No doubt in the natural run of things I imagine Muse will get less responsive and more corporate, but at the moment they seem to be doing good stuff.
Avid (Sibelius) otoh couldn’t care less.
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Originally Posted by emanresu
AFAIK it’s the only free one that can compete with the big boys (Sibelius and Dorico)
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So nice for clearing it out, thanks!
edit:
You actually made my day Christian
I watched that Tantacrul's Sibelius video, found it funny. Then saw him explaining how much trouble they had with making Musescore 3.. I think it was about 3.
Didn't know about the whole story and thought it was in bad taste. The Sibelius thing.Last edited by emanresu; 04-01-2023 at 06:42 AM.
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I'm still using MuseScore3, it works fine for me, I did have to setup the audio processing.
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Originally Posted by emanresu
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I'm happy with Musescore 3, does everything I need really. I'm currently typing in the chart for Israel (from the 'Birth of the Cool' score book), eventually I might export it to Reaper and record something with it.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
Thing is - music notation is so much harder than rocket science.
It is up there with OS's, fancy video editors and all that.
It is so.damn.hard.
With a smaller team like they have there, they rely on the crowd who tests it. And better be supporting the effort. Or else, you'd be paying 500.- for a year's subscription for Finale or Sibelius.
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Originally Posted by emanresu
bwahahahaha
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Originally Posted by emanresu
A music notation is mostly a large collection of little rules, most of which you just have to know rather than understand. When was the last time you had to ponder a score before you understood what it meant (I'm not talking about harmonic analysis or something of the sort).
Writing a music notation editor can still be a (very) hard problem if you want to implement all those rules efficiently and without them biting each other in the tail. It certainly is a huge amount of work.
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Originally Posted by RJVB
edit: sorry. "rocket science" was a joke thing. It is 1st April.
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Anyhow. When doing a simple tune in any decent notation app, it's fine. When it gets a tad bit more complex, the "rules" get overwhelmed fast.
2 voices on 1 staff - probably need a few manual fixings. 3 voices - nope! Been there a lot. It is way too much to ask - it will never get perfect. The rule set -
it won't help at all when it gets complicated. The apps so far have the first priority to give some space for the notes. To make it all good to read withouth any help from the human - that will never happen.
3 voices on a single staff and it will require manual tinkering always. Add fingering - ... hehehe
Well. It's the basic struggle. But there is soooooo much more.
edit: oh. I forgot. to code this. it is freaking insane. imagine about 500 tiny elements that have to fight for space. all the combinations. there is no nice way to code it. it is larger than chess.Last edited by emanresu; 04-01-2023 at 06:50 PM.
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I'd been switching back and forth and may have opened a 4 file in 3 and then, later, reopened it in 4.
I'm not sure, tbh.
What I do know is that I never had a file corrupted until I got 4.
I have a tune which goes from 7/4 to 4/4 a few times. I ended up with a bar which was supposed to be in 7/4 in some odd time (according to corruption error message, in 17/8 or something (can't recall exactly). Couldn't even delete the bar and start over. I found a few tricks on line, one of which involved changing voices and then changing back, which seemed to work.
I need to investigate this further.
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Tantacrul goes into some depth in a video on the dizzying complexities of devising rules for musical typesetting that a computer can follow. rocket science might not in fact be a bad comparison, in that it is annoying and complicated real world problems based on stuff that isn’t that complicated in theory. (eg the rocket equation and calculating energy released by combustion is one thing but stopping your exhaust nozzles from melting is quite another.)
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Or, you could probably use neuromancy, a term coined in the early 90s for a solution where you train a neural network to perform a task using backpropagation. (With enough training cycles you can train a large enough network to map any input to just about any output, but you get something that's worthless as a model of that input/output relationship, hence the "mancy" bit.)
With today's computing power that might actually even be a useful (component of an) implementation where users continue to train the application to typeset scores in ways that they find best.
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Originally Posted by RJVB
But do you have experience with coding such things then?Last edited by emanresu; 04-02-2023 at 03:41 PM.
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People just don’t respect typesetting
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Originally Posted by emanresu
I've been hacking around in the MuseScore code (mostly fixing crashes) and indeed written code for various relevant other problems. Feathers in a hat I rarely wear anymore.
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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FWIW here's a demo of the Musescore solo strings playback.
Interesting thing to me is that I didn't put any dynamics in, but the AI strings still use them.
I think the 'scooping up to the note' effect is a bit overdone though, but I have no idea how to dial it back.
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Yes, that sounds horrible, Iona Browned directing the Saint Martin-in-the-Fields after a few too many
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I noticed the other day that Musescore bought Staffpad.
Then I rediscovered that I'd messed around with Musescore's own efforts at a similar program some years back... I couldn't even remember doing that! But FWIW, I'm still intrigued by iPad + Pencil driven notation - though fairly, my needs are simple solos and not band orchestration level. You guys seem to be doing more of the latter and that sort of complexity is mind boggling. Given that my own efforts at their most complex utilized a fairly basic Tabledit, I have nothing but admiration for your more complete needs and the whole of the undertaking.
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Originally Posted by RJVB
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Originally Posted by emanresu
I've been afraid to try it, but I really need it for my piano parts. I gave up trying to figure it out and gave the poor pianist leger lines on the other stave.
Cheap floating humbuckers
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