Joe Pass - Catch Me - Fender?

[Tal_175]

This album has my favorite Joe Pass sound. There is more to sound than guitar obviously but to me it sounds very distictly like ES-175. Yet the album cover seems to suggest Fender headstock:
Catch Me - Wikipedia!
EDIT: There seems to be a bug in the processing of the link (exclamation is excluded automatically from the link), it doesn't take you to the album directly. Just click on the link of the album (second link) in the page it takes you.

Do you know which guitar he used in this recording? Here are some tunes from the album (Just Friends link is from a later compilation but it's the Catch Me! recording of the tune):

[grahambop]

I don’t know the answer, but it always sounded more like a 175 to me. He said in an interview that the Fender belonged to the Synanon foundation. Catch Me was recorded in 1963 which is also the year he was given the 175 (as far as I can make out).

So my guess is the 175 is more likely, perhaps the album cover is just an older photo they used.

[wintermoon]

sounds like the Jaguar to me, more 'plinky' sounding than a 175

[Tal_175]

Interesting. I don't hear it as plinky at all. Here is a recording with a Jaguar. That to me is (at times) plinky, still a good sound. When you compare with "Falling in love with love" above, difference is pretty clear:

[Just Russ]

His Jaguar tone is pretty inspirational.

[jameslovestal]

His Jaguar tone is pretty inspirational.

Yea, I have a very similar Jaguar; why don't I sound like Joe????

(rhetorical question, please don't reply, ha ha!).

[Tal_175]

According to interweb Joe Pass received his ES 175 on his birthday (Jan 13) in 1963. Joe Pass only used this guitar afterwards until 1970. This album was recorded in July 1963, so this would suggest that he used his ES 175. It sure sounds like ES 175 to me. But it's hard to get definitive information about it.

Citations:
This article says he got it on his birthday:
From Drug Addict to Jazz Legend: Life and Work of Joe Pass | Articles @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com
Album recording date is on the Wikipedia page of the album (liked above in the OP).
His birthday is in his wikipedia page:
Joe Pass - Wikipedia
The fact that it was in 1963 and he used it until 1970 is mentioned here:
The Gibson ES-175 - History, Buying Tips & Price Guide

[neatomic]

catch me is from at least two different sessions...different rhythm sections...

joe was a session man for pacific jazz..so the pics of him holding guitars mean little...he played acoustics, 12 strings..whatever was needed...the album cover pics don't necessarily correspond to the session

he cut an album with bud shank at around the same time..with the same players as catch me called brasamba...and he's playing acoustic throughout that

he was given his es-175 by a fan for his birthday..which is in january..

having said all that, it does sound like a jaguar to me...jaguar has a very distinctive tone..sharp attack with little sustain...not really like tele or strat or jazzmaster...the live clip ^ is very muddy and not really indicative of a true jaguars sound

incidentally, you are in good company, both allan holdsworth and larry carlton cite catch me as one of their fave lps of all time


cheers

ps- to illustrate my point ^, heres a reissue complete catch me sessions with pass and acoustic guitar cover

[Tal_175]

Well if this is Jaguar, than the person who gave him the ES 175 did a great disservice to the jazz community But I still maintain that it sounds like an ES 175 to me until a definitive evidence is presented that shows otherwise. In which case I'll cover my ears with my hands and shout nonesense until I erase this thread from my memory.

[neatomic]

some of the album was recorded as early as january 1963

here's good info-

Record </head>

cheers

[Tal_175]

some of the album was recorded as early as january 1963

here's good info-

Record </head>

cheers

The earliest recording date is Jan 30. About two weeks after his birthday. On the one hand that's right at the peak of his honeymoon period with his new guitar, so it makes sense he would use it. But on the other hand, may be that was too soon for him to be comfortable with it for using it in the recording. But then we are talking about Joe Pass here, I doubt it took him anytime before he can shred on it. Besides he had probably used ES 175 or similar guitars many times already that were landed to him.

[Cunamara]

Every time I see those pictures of Joe with a Fender guitar and no mustache, I am as startled as when I see photos of Jim Hall with hair.

I don't think that I can reliably tell which guitar is on that recording. As Tim Lerch has ably demonstrated for us, it can be basically impossible to discern purely by listening what kind of guitar is being played. Phrasing is a huge amount of the sound as well as picking technique. Flatwound versus roundwound, whether the amp is miked on center or off-center or whether the guitar goes directly into the desk,EQ and mixing, etc., all make it very difficult to tell.

[grahambop]

On one of the two takes of ‘Catch Me’ it sounds as if Joe was playing some kind of low-tuned guitar:

[Doctor Jeff]

Interesting. I don't hear it as plinky at all. Here is a recording with a Jaguar. That to me is (at times) plinky, still a good sound. When you compare with "Falling in love with love" above, difference is pretty clear:

It sounds different probably because of differences in the recording--amp, mics, room, etc.

I don't hear any 175 thunk on the FILWL recording. I do hear a plink and distinct lack of sustain, leading me to agree with others it's the Jaguar.

Obviously a good sound, but not my favorite Joe tone of all time.

[wintermoon]

"I don't hear any 175 thunk on the FILWL recording. I do hear a plink and distinct lack of sustain, leading me to agree with others it's the Jaguar."

That's what I thought.
It's not the initial attack of the notes, but the decay that leads my to believe it's the Jag. It just has that plinky sound of a solidbody to me.
You can't compare that Synanon clip to a recording in studio and as mentioned, even studio recordings vary. But listen to For Django recorded about a yr later.
That's obviously his 175.

[Tal_175]

It sounds different probably because of differences in the recording--amp, mics, room, etc.

I don't hear any 175 thunk on the FILWL recording. I do hear a plink and distinct lack of sustain, leading me to agree with others it's the Jaguar.

Obviously a good sound, but not my favorite Joe tone of all time.

I actually hear thunk in this song from the same album:

Also I have an ES 175, thunk is not always there. It's more noticeable with some EQ settings than others.

[Tal_175]

I listened to some of the tunes again. I now agree that "Falling in love with love" sounds like it could be played with a solid body. It's quite different than in the Synanon clip but that's not a fair comparison.
However "Just Friends" and "Catch Me" still sound more like ES 175 to me. Since the album was recorded in separate sessions, it's possible he didn't use the same guitar in all songs.