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Back in my high school days, I had a History teacher that described this instrument that the (Medieval? Renaissance?) minstrels used to play. It was a percussion instrument, where you would crank a handle and get some kind of rhythm going. Kind of an organ grinder deal, but for percussion.
This was back in the Cenozoic era, so no internet back then -- we didn't even get a picture of what the thing looked like, just the guy's description of how the minstrel would be cranking his handle and everybody would be grooving to Ye Olde Tyme Beates.
Recently I was trying to figure out what instrument he might have been talking about, or even if such an instrument existed. However, when I look for percussion instruments where you turn a handle, the only one that shows up is the ratchet. Which is not what my old teacher was describing -- it doesn't make a rhythm, it just creates this "rrratch-rrratch" noise.
So, did such an instrument ever exist? Or was my old teacher misinformed?
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04-13-2021 01:06 AM
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Hurdy Gurdy?
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Hurdy-Gurdy is hardly a percussion.. but I guess the conception can be allied to drum patterns either
I am quite deep into that topic, I played baroque and renaissance lutes for years and lately (about a year or two I am also in medieval music quite seriously, I play lute and early transverse flutes also).
I cannot remember any instruments of the kind. (Real minstrels usually used plucked instruments, mostly citole or simple harp to accompany themselves, in general only singers were real musicians (musicus), plucked instruments were the most estimated among instruments - probably because of their ability to play a few sounds together, association with harmony and resonant nature of the instruments, I believe it comes from ancient Greece: famous competition between Appolo (with his lyre, created by Hermes) and Marsyas (with flute-auolos, created by Athena)...
Later this high emblematic meaning was inherited by lute.
All other instruments were considered low - especially drums and wind...
I am in touch with Danil Ryabchikov, citole player, author of many articles and a book on medieval music, and a leader of Ensemble Labyrinthus, and managing Director of Musica Mesurata festival. Byt the way he leads very informative podcasts and videoblogs on nedieval music (but they are all in Russian).
He is a real expert in the topic with both serious artistic and scientific background.
I wil try to ask himLast edited by Jonah; 04-13-2021 at 07:18 AM.
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Danil said he never heard of that and can hardly imagine such in instrument in early music periods... and me too... it is not really common for European tradition in general.
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I would bet on the hurdy hurry as well.
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Originally Posted by Littlemark
And I never saw hurdy hurdy as a part of serious medieval music performance practice
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Here's a video where the OP can see the instrument being played
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Or I misunderstood the question?
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Thanks everybody! But the instrument described was not the hurdy gurdy -- it was a percussion instrument. Now that I think about it, the way my old teacher described how it was performed reminds me of the typical internet drummer jokes. Uncultured oaf of an itinerant musician, just cranking the handle and making a racket.
I guess my old teacher was misinformed / making it up.
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Could it be a rommelpot perhaps?
Traditional Music in the Daily Life of Vermeer: The Rommelpot
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Thrown like a star in my vast sleep
I opened my eyes to take a peek
To find that I was by the sea
Gazing with tranquility
'Twas then when the Hurdy Gurdy Man
Came singing songs of love
Then when the Hurdy Gurdy Man
Came singing songs of love
Interestingly there is some dispute whether Jimmy Page or Allen Holdsworth or both played on this song. John Paul Jones did, but it’s also unclear if John Bonham played on it. Some suggest that this session was the genesis for the formation of Led Zeppelin.
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Alan holdsworth denied it. Many times. And I don’t think he’d forget. Unlike page say who did thousands of sessions Allan was young and would have remembered being on a Donovan session.
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Originally Posted by Howzabopping
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Here’s a rommelpot in action.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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The sound of a rommelpot in Venice - what could be more romantic?
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Actually I can easily imagine some kind of cylindric drum with with a handle to rotate and make some purcassive sound.. but I cannot seem to find anything.
It can be a bit similar to Russian folk 'treshotka' - but it works the opposite way.
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Originally Posted by Jonah
Last edited by citizenk74; 04-17-2021 at 12:04 PM.
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Originally Posted by citizenk74
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Listen from 2:50... this sounds like a percussion instrument that is being cranked to make the noises. You can hear it slow down at the end.
WARNING: Some of the tunes on this album are psychoactive
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You don’t often hear the words ‘Baden Powell’ and ‘rommelpot’ in the same sentence, but that’s basically what’s going on here (admittedly it’s the Brazilian equivalent, the cuica):
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I like many things Italian and Brazilian. The Brazilians win this one. By Miles and miles.
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Maybe my old teacher was referring to the rommelpot, who knows! Indeed it sounds like an ancestor of the Brazilian cuica -- another fascinating instrument.
PSA - New Bory’s B165 available.
Today, 03:56 PM in The Builder's Bench