Usefulness of generic exercise books on the guitar

[deacon Mark]

Better off spending time learning and memorizing tunes. They can be an exercise and I do it daily with Charlie Parker bebop tunes. A bit of exercises to warm but if you know the scales and chords then forget the rest and play tunes. I wish I had done that years ago because nobody has yet as me to play a exercise for them but I get a lot of requests for tunes.

[AllanAllen]

Better off spending time learning and memorizing tunes. They can be an exercise and I do it daily with Charlie Parker bebop tunes. A bit of exercises to warm but if you know the scales and chords then forget the rest and play tunes. I wish I had done that years ago because nobody has yet as me to play a exercise for them but I get a lot of requests for tunes.

What’s another easy one? I’ve got Now’s The Time, Scrapple and Billie’s Bounce.

Edit: oh this is cool.

Charlie Parker for Guitar - Licks, Patterns, and Cliches

[pcjazz]

What’s another easy one? I’ve got Now’s The Time, Scrapple

Ornithology, Blues for Alice, Au Privave, Anthropology

[A. Kingstone]

Ornithology, Blues for Alice, Au Privave, Anthropology

Easy Paul? I still struggle with all of these heads.

My espousing Patterns For Jazz is a way to prepare for Parker.

[enalnitram]

I bought a few of those when I was young, but I never used them.

I have wound up writing my own book, using phrases I like from doing transcriptions, as well as things I have found myself doing, that I will just repeat.

I think it's up to us to invent our own dialects.

[Tal_175]

The only problem with Patterns for Jazz is that it's not spiral bound (also its abrupt transition to polychords out of nowhere).

[pamosmusic]

the only problem with patterns for jazz is that it's not spiral bound

preach

[rpjazzguitar]

I could argue this several ways.

1. Reading patterns will help your reading, build facility on the instrument, get your fingers out of well worn ruts if you have any, and build jazz vocabulary.

2. It will help some players more than others, depending on level and learning style. For the player starting to improvise and still getting familiar with the fingerboard, sure.

3. Of course, you could do it with tunes instead of patterns. I'd hope the patterns are well designed to teach various thing about fingerings, melody, rhythm and harmony. I haven't used Coker's book, so this is not a comment on that. But, tunes contain all of that and as an extra bonus, you learn tunes.

4. Then, OTOH. I have a shelf of books, including multiple pattern books, from which I've gotten almost nothing into my playing, unless it's beneath conscious awareness, which is possible. I find that I learn patterns much, much, more efficiently when I see and hear a guitarist play them live in a song.

[murphybridget837]

While they are fantastic resources, adapting them for the guitar does require some consideration. Remember, the key is to make these exercises work for you and your guitar playing style.

[GuyBoden]

I remember there was a book of actual Jazz licks from various players (Sax), stating the recordings the licks were from, personally, I found that more helpful.

I just can't remember it's name?

I'm sure that forum members would be willing to post their fav simple patterns and we could then have a forum resource.

[GuyBoden]

So, here's my simple chromatic pattern:

The pattern emphasises the 3rd note of the chord on the 1st beat of the bar.

For practice, the pattern is repeated over C Major iiVI changes.

[pamosmusic]

So, here's my simple pattern or lick:

The pattern emphasises the 3rd note of the chord on the 1st beat of the bar.

For practice, the pattern is repeated over C Major iiVI changes.

Simple, eh?

[GuyBoden]

Simple, eh?

Yes, don't chromatics look complex in music notation. It's so easy to play.

But, honestly, it's simply a four note chromatic pattern, that starts on the 'add of beat 2' and lands on the 3rd note of the next chord on beat 1.

| - - -F#-G-G#-G-F#| F

[Tal_175]

Patterns make you work on phrasal building blocks. A lick is typically made up of several building blocks (enclosures, scale fragments, arpeggios etc.). Heads are even more complex. There are benefits in working on licks and heads of course but they don't substitute for patterns unless you break them apart and turn them into pattern exercises.

My favorite way to work on a pattern is to pick a scale (or a chord-scale) and apply it to every scale note diatonically. I find that to be a bit more useful for jazz guitar than taking the pattern to different keys. Another good way is to take the pattern through a progression.

[pamosmusic]

My favorite way to work on a pattern is to pick a scale (or a chord-scale) and apply it to every scale note diatonically. I find that to be a bit more useful for jazz guitar than taking the pattern to different keys. Another good way is to take the pattern through a progression.

+1

that’s what i meant by sequencing it through a scale. The pattern then becomes the scale practice. I also do bebop heads and tunes every day. So the patterns don’t eat into the tune practice time, they eat into the scale practice time. And honestly they just replace the scale practice.

[Tal_175]

+1

that’s what i meant by sequencing it through a scale. The pattern then becomes the scale practice. I also do bebop heads and tunes every day. So the patterns don’t eat into the tune practice time, they eat into the scale practice time. And honestly they just replace the scale practice.

Yeah, "sequencing through a scale" is a better way of describing it. This exercise makes you dig deeper actively into both the scale and the pattern in a more mindful way instead of mindlessly playing dots.

[pcjazz]

Easy Paul? I still struggle with all of these heads..

I think they are in the same ballpark as Scrapple and easier than e.g. Donna Lee or Confirmation. They also sound good at a moderate tempo. And I would add Yardbird Suite to my earlier list for the same reasons. Which is not to say that I don’t sometimes struggle with them.

[enalnitram]

I remember there was a book of actual Jazz licks from various players (Sax), stating the recordings the licks were from, personally, I found that more helpful.

I just can't remember it's name?

I'm sure that forum members would be willing to post their fav simple patterns or licks and we could then have a forum resource.

I have one called "Solo Phrases by the Masters / Great Moments in Jazz". (Sher) It contains all instruments, and identifies the source of the lick.

[Travelrock]

I find the range of exercise possibilities that you are describing very interesting. I think the latter can be very useful.

When making decisions to adequately plan study sessions, I understand that there are two key considerations to take into account:

- The level (technical, theoretical,)

- The goal. Depending on the objective, the needs and shortcomings must be analyzed, and from this information is when the strategy to follow must be developed.

For complete my routine, I need vocabulary. I think that patterns are the more adecuate resource for extract the vocabulary since I work melodies and scales separately.

As for thinking about the notes we play instead of thinking about points, it is a decision we can make with any type of exercise, whether it is a scale, a lick, or anything else.

[AllanAllen]

+1

that’s what i meant by sequencing it through a scale. The pattern then becomes the scale practice. I also do bebop heads and tunes every day. So the patterns don’t eat into the tune practice time, they eat into the scale practice time. And honestly they just replace the scale practice.

Yeah, to further this part of it.

I feel like progress is somehow lost on development threads. Like, nobody is saying run the major scale from lowest note to highest note 15 minutes a day for the rest of your life. But, you should work on it until you can do it. Then move on. Like going from crawling to walking, to running. I think you can go from scales to patterns to licks and finally putting it all together in lines and then you're on your own.

Of course, you should be learning tunes all along as that's the goal, to play tunes, but if you don't have chops together, you need to do that too. Reciting Autumn Leaves by rote memorization is way different than playing the internalized melody. I don't have the vocabulary to explain what goes on in my head, but I'm not reciting the tune anymore, I hear it inside and know where to go, and I think it's because I spent time on scales and patterns.

[Reg]

OK... So you need to know where your trying to go with your playing. Hobby and for fun, maybe playing jazz tunes... actually trying to play in a jazz style... But generally.... it is a waste of time to go through books without working on technique. By technique I mean...

Be able to play and have internalized..

1) basic scales... (Two Octaves), arpeggios and chords on each scale degree, anywhere on the neck and all the patterns.


Patterns are like, 1234 2345 3456 etc.… up and down, two octaves. Another ex. 1324,3546 etc. It's simple to write or notate out most of the possibilities and more than enough for practice schedules.


You really need to also practice these patterns using triples. Three eighthnotes and quarter and eighth and always make the drills fit into an even number of bars. The patterns should also use 3rds, 4ths etc.

Scales to pull from,

Major, Harmonic min., Melodic min. Then add Harmonic maj. and symmetrical scales. Diminished, Whole Tone, Chromatic, Pentatonics, Blues, Bebop.

2) Chords... all scales have implied chords constructed from each scale degree. 7ths, triads, 9ths, 11ths and 13ths. Start with all chords constructed with roots on 6th, 5th and 4th strings.

3) Get a rhythm book. I usually push the Bellson books...but have others from other drummers. Don't use a guitar book.

4) Sight Reading... which can include tunes and even reading through all the other books. Work on playing Chords more than single lines... eventually your going to need to understand and be able to play Chord Patters that imply single chords.

5) This is usually things you like, fun etc...

* I usually also push Spider Drills, and learning how to vamp on chord progression

This can take 6 months to ?... depending on your skill level, time and life.

When you start with just tunes and what most books and teachers use... starting slow etc... Your learning how not to play. Creating habits which your going need to change later.

Playing in a jazz style is not for everyone, just like other styles.

[pamosmusic]

OK... So you need to know where your trying to go with your playing. Hobby and for fun, maybe playing jazz tunes... actually trying to play in a jazz style... But generally.... it is a waste of time to go through books without working on technique. By technique I mean...

Be able to play and have internalized..

Right, this I would agree with 100% … my list of stuff is just different than yours. And probably a little shorter, but not really super different.

I guess mine is scales that cover the neck (mine are more or less caged but I’m not real picky about that, so long as there aren’t blank spots), three and four note coils (123 234 etc), ascending and descending diatonic thirds, ascending and descending triads, ascending and descending seventh chords.

Usually once they have one of those patterns down, I start giving them vocabulary that involves that thing.

There are I guess two reasons for that … the first is that vocabulary is the goal, and the second is that they feel some validation. This thing I’m doing is not just box checking; it’s getting me vocabulary. I guess it’s worth mentioning that it can be tough to find lots of vocabulary that uses the coils, only somewhat easier for the thirds, and way way way easier for triads and seventh chords. Which seems relevant.

Some other things I do pretty quick: chromatic approach notes on those same patterns. Then also 6ths, triad inversions, 7th chord pivots.

I get into all the netherworld of other intervals and inverted seventh chords and quartals and junk for myself, but honestly I’ve never had a student get to that stuff. And how much do I use that stuff? Some … not a ton probably.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

OK... So you need to know where your trying to go with your playing. Hobby and for fun, maybe playing jazz tunes... actually trying to play in a jazz style... But generally.... it is a waste of time to go through books without working on technique. By technique I mean...

Be able to play and have internalized..

1) basic scales... (Two Octaves), arpeggios and chords on each scale degree, anywhere on the neck and all the patterns.


Patterns are like, 1234 2345 3456 etc.… up and down, two octaves. Another ex. 1324,3546 etc. It's simple to write or notate out most of the possibilities and more than enough for practice schedules.


You really need to also practice these patterns using triples. Three eighthnotes and quarter and eighth and always make the drills fit into an even number of bars. The patterns should also use 3rds, 4ths etc.

Scales to pull from,

Major, Harmonic min., Melodic min. Then add Harmonic maj. and symmetrical scales. Diminished, Whole Tone, Chromatic, Pentatonics, Blues, Bebop.

2) Chords... all scales have implied chords constructed from each scale degree. 7ths, triads, 9ths, 11ths and 13ths. Start with all chords constructed with roots on 6th, 5th and 4th strings.

3) Get a rhythm book. I usually push the Bellson books...but have others from other drummers. Don't use a guitar book.

4) Sight Reading... which can include tunes and even reading through all the other books. Work on playing Chords more than single lines... eventually your going to need to understand and be able to play Chord Patters that imply single chords.

5) This is usually things you like, fun etc...

* I usually also push Spider Drills, and learning how to vamp on chord progression

This can take 6 months to ?... depending on your skill level, time and life.

When you start with just tunes and what most books and teachers use... starting slow etc... Your learning how not to play. Creating habits which your going need to change later.

Playing in a jazz style is not for everyone, just like other styles.

Thanks a lot, that is really concrete stuff that everybody can understand.

[Tal_175]

I guess it’s worth mentioning that it can be tough to find lots of vocabulary that uses the coils, only somewhat easier for the thirds, and way way way easier for triads and seventh chords. Which seems relevant.

I'm not sure what you mean here. I'd say it's tough to find vocabulary that does not use coils. A coil starting on a scale degree is just a 3 or 4 note scalar fragment. As a phrasal building block, it's not often you hear a bar of jazz improvisation without a coil, no?

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Yeah, to further this part of it.

I feel like progress is somehow lost on development threads. Like, nobody is saying run the major scale from lowest note to highest note 15 minutes a day for the rest of your life. But, you should work on it until you can do it. Then move on. Like going from crawling to walking, to running. I think you can go from scales to patterns to licks and finally putting it all together in lines and then you're on your own.

Of course, you should be learning tunes all along as that's the goal, to play tunes, but if you don't have chops together, you need to do that too. Reciting Autumn Leaves by rote memorization is way different than playing the internalized melody. I don't have the vocabulary to explain what goes on in my head, but I'm not reciting the tune anymore, I hear it inside and know where to go, and I think it's because I spent time on scales and patterns.

For me the Barry Harris scale outlines (in the most basic form playing a scale up from root to seventh) have turned out to be really useful when learning tunes for me. So there is really much sense in learning scales in that manner (maybe not only CAGED but in in the way I described above according to Goodrick's "Advancing Guitarist") and bringing them up to speed.