The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #126

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    Here’s a new one.

    It’s a *different* Charlie Christian lick. I swear.


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #127

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    I always feel kind of mechanical moving from the turnaround to the opening of the A section. I always felt Jimmy Raney is the master of doing that in a really hip way that makes it feel like you're still developing the logic of the line. This is from one of the Jimmy Raney solos in the Aebersold Vol. 20 set that I worked through a few years back. I still enjoy playing this whole blues solo but this little phrase, going from Bar 12 back to the top through Bar 4, has always brought me delight.


  4. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    The problem was trying to find a simple but effective lick out of any number of them. There are innumerable transcriptions and any Charlie Parker lick would have done. But I didn't see the point of posting stuff anyone can find.

    As a matter of fact, there are YouTube vids of multiple Parker licks and multiple bebop licks by other players. The thing about bebop licks is they're quite generic; one could almost fit them in anywhere. You can do that with bluegrass too.

    But, in the case of a lot of the other players, their licks, extracted from solos, were good but obviously suited to, and played for, a particular tune at the time. So the question was whether they're what we want here? So if we don't mind that sort of thing, and I'm not sure about it, I thought I may as well provide my own.

    These licks are from an old version of Stella I did some time ago (so no self-conscious lick playing) over the part in the A section that goes

    Fm7 - Bb7 - EbM7 - Ab7

    I thought that was a fairly useful selection. Make of it what you will... if you can actually be bothered with it at all, that is. You might be able to get some ideas from it, you never know. Again, apologies for the midi, it's just not human, is it?

    Attachment 102406Attachment 102407Attachment 102408Attachment 102409


    Hey Rag... do you hear the chords being spelled... like in the 1st example, F-7b5 going to E7#11 then Bb7 .. Ebma7 etc..

    The notation would probable be more standard... like in 1st example... the triplet in 1st bar would have been on beat 2 like the 4th bar... the rest just needs standard jazz subdividing and barring or beaming notation practice...

    It still reads fine, I see much worse playing gigs LOL

  5. #129

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    I don't know if this counts, but I often quote the opening lick of "Ornithology" on and vary it, move it around as a cell, etc., as

  6. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Well, just. Tell me how you'd have written the second bar in No. 1 with the triplet after an 8th rest. I was fairly intrigued by that myself.
    That sounds more like a problem of translation. A lot of the time software that transcribes like that will take a phrase with a time-feel other than perfectly straight eighth notes and translate it in unusual ways.

    I’ve seen a swing feel transcribed with a very confusing combination of sixteenth rests and triplet rests and stuff. When usually it’s more easily transcribed simply and played with a time feel that lays back or stretches the first eighth note or whatever.

    Software is sometimes a little too smart for its own good.

    and for what it’s worth … the program does what it does, but most arrangers spend half their time correcting beam issues and other weird stuff the program does anyway.

  7. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    To be honest, I might not have meant to play a triplet, maybe I just stretched out the notes a bit. I'll see if I can find the original again :-)
    that’s what I was alluding to

  8. #132

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    Hey Rag... I thought I did..

    I looked at your example, and it was already corrected..

  9. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    Hey Rag... I thought I did..

    I looked at your example, and it was already corrected..
    It's a miracle

  10. #134

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    I got a few new subscribers after I posted "A Jerry Garcia inspired Lick" on youtube. So I'm trying to make this a bit more user friendly.

    Attached Images Attached Images Modular lick compendium-major-minor-blues-lick-png 

  11. #135

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    This is a bit of a cliche Bebop type lick, but it can be embellished or even modernised.

    I've played this slow repeatedly. It has a bit of a fret stretch, which suits my style, but it can be played in other positions.

    Short 0.53sec video.



  12. #136

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    Here's a couple more. This is the section in Stella that goes

    Em7b5 - A7 - Dm7b5 - G7
    Cm7b5 - F7(b9) - BbM7 - %

    I'm not putting the symbols into the notation because the print interferes with the high notes. They're quick to listen to but long to print out. Also, you can have the original fuzzy ragman audio. You know you love it :-)

    Sorry I'm not very good at doing one quick lick at a time but, if you want a recommendation, either of the two BbM7 bars are quite nice.

    Modular lick compendium-hhhhhhhhh-jpg

    Modular lick compendium-ffffffffffffff-jpg


  13. #137

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    Here’s one I stole from a friend’s Arban’s book. He’s a trumpet player and said he can hear Arban’s exercises in Booker Little and Clifford Brown and some of those hard bop trumpeters, so I figured why not.


  14. #138

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    Hooray, some action! Nice one, both. I've done a thing too but I didn't want to hog the place.

    Anyway, this is to do with the backdoor cadence and is basically about what one plays over it. Maybe most players might think one should outline the substitute chords.

    Personally I've never gone that way much. You can outline them, maybe no one will notice, but from my view it can become inaccurate because one hasn't actually modulated into another key.

    This is in Bb. It's not just found in Stella but many other tunes besides so the tune doesn't matter much. And as we know, the Cm7-F7 is replaced by Ebm7-Ab7.

    The idea is that one can simply play Cm7-F7 over the sub chords and it'll sound fine. But I was asking myself what would happen if one chose to alter the F7 to either F7b9 or F7alt. Would it still work then?

    And I'd say the answer is yes.

    To demonstrate it here's the same solo played over both sets of chords.

    Cm - F7 - BbM7 - %

    Ebm - Ab7 - BbM7 - %.

    But the solo plays F7 diatonically first, then as 7b9, then altered, so that's three times for each set.

    See what you think. Comments welcome.

    Modular lick compendium-cm-jpg


    Last edited by ragman1; 06-19-2023 at 08:10 PM.

  15. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Personally I've never gone that way much. You can outline them, maybe no one will notice, but from my view it can become inaccurate because one hasn't actually modulated into another key.
    Hmm. I’m not sure I agree with the logic here? I’m definitely Team If It Sounds Good Play It, but I think (I guess) the purpose of a back door cadence, or any other but the dominant, would be its “deceptive” nature. So the fact that it hasn’t really modulated would probably be a crucial part of the sound the composer was going for.

    Again … I don’t think it particularly matters, just intrigued by the stated reason, I guess.

  16. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by pamosmusic View Post
    Hmm. I’m not sure I agree with the logic here? I’m definitely Team If It Sounds Good Play It, but I think (I guess) the purpose of a back door cadence, or any other but the dominant, would be its “deceptive” nature. So the fact that it hasn’t really modulated would probably be a crucial part of the sound the composer was going for.

    Again … I don’t think it particularly matters, just intrigued by the stated reason, I guess.
    I hear what you say. If the chords do something other than the normal ii-V, it ought to sound like it! I agree... but I think there are good ways and not-so-good ways of doing it.

    If the Ebm7 - Ab7 meant the tune at that point modulated into Db then use the Db maj scale and it'll sound right. My point is that it hasn't gone into Db at all, it's still in Bb. So what is one to do?

    Of course, if the soloist is only going to arpeggiate the chords as written then there's no argument. But if he's going to play lines, and it's not in Db, what then?

  17. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    I hear what you say. If the chords do something other than the normal ii-V, it ought to sound like it! I agree... but I think there are good ways and not-so-good ways of doing it.

    If the Ebm7 - Ab7 meant the tune at that point modulated into Db then use the Db maj scale and it'll sound right. My point is that it hasn't gone into Db at all, it's still in Bb. So what is one to do?

    Of course, if the soloist is only going to arpeggiate the chords as written then there's no argument. But if he's going to play lines, and it's not in Db, what then?
    Well, I guess I would probably say this is a false dichotomy. Meaning that a “line” doesn’t need to be scalar. I would probably argue that even if it were a C minor and F7, playing “in the key of Bb” wouldn’t be the most compelling way of thinking about it in general. I think a lot of the time I’m looking for stronger patterns and things inside of a scale that suit the situation.

    For example, an Ab7 with a sharp 11 works really well in that context, so playing something from the Eb melodic minor tonality works better for that change. Even still … something other than straight up and down that scale.

    EDIT: When I mentioned a false dichotomy, I was referring to the choice between something just arpeggiating changes, and something being “a line.” Because a line can consist primarily of arpeggiated changes. But maybe a more important false dichotomy is in the idea that the tonality either needs to be straightforwardly Db major or straightforwardly Bb major. To put it in the terms you used, I would agree that it doesn’t modulate. So a Db major scale wouldn’t sound quite right. But, that would mean the chords in question would be iv-bVII7, which aren’t contained inside the Bb major scale. Even though they function in the key of Bb major, doesn’t mean the Bb major scale would work any better than Db.
    Last edited by pamosmusic; 06-19-2023 at 11:08 PM.

  18. #142

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    For what it’s worth, I think this is the value of dissecting licks. Finding melodic ideas that are really strong and can work or be modified to work in a lot of other contexts.

  19. #143

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    Heh heh... absolutely. Anybody who's played subway stations is all right with me

    (I won't go through your answer point by point because it's right. We don't want 'scales', we want interesting stuff that works. But I still think there has to be some kind of basis to proceed, if that makes sense.

    Maybe that's the whole thing with jazz, it has to sound right/good yet not be rigidly 'correct'. I'm sure it's what drives budding improvisers nuts.

    You've given the perfect answer. In my estimation at least!)

  20. #144

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    Heh heh... absolutely. Anybody who's played subway stations is all right with me
    Never give someone credit for playing in subway stations without asking which ones. For all you know, I could’ve been playing polka to backing tracks in Sheepshead Bay.

    You've given the perfect answer. In my estimation at least!
    Well, I have to say, I wasn’t expecting this.

  21. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by pamosmusic View Post
    Never give someone credit for playing in subway stations without asking which ones. For all you know, I could’ve been playing polka to backing tracks in Sheepshead Bay.
    Images tell me that Sheepshead Bay Station is mostly above ground. Doesn't look too bad. I mean, they don't have to be prestigious stations!

    Well, I have to say, I wasn’t expecting this.
    Oh, I reckon it was excellent. Comprehensive coverage :-)

  22. #146

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    Big fan of Stella's rear end
    (Second time using Ashampoo to record)
    Attached Files Attached Files

  23. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Heh heh... absolutely. Anybody who's played subway stations is all right with me

    (I won't go through your answer point by point because it's right. We don't want 'scales', we want interesting stuff that works. But I still think there has to be some kind of basis to proceed, if that makes sense.

    Maybe that's the whole thing with jazz, it has to sound right/good yet not be rigidly 'correct'. I'm sure it's what drives budding improvisers nuts.

    You've given the perfect answer. In my estimation at least!)
    Well have to take Jens to court on this one.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/oxaFivj1FwQ?feature=share

  24. #148

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    That Jens knows a lot!

  25. #149

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    This just popped out…

    whole-tone luck from F7 to Bb:

    https://youtube.com/shorts/TGMcjcdxHik?feature=share

  26. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    This just popped out…

    whole-tone luck from F7 to Bb:

    https://youtube.com/shorts/TGMcjcdxHik?feature=share

    Thanks Rob: My playing needs plenty of luck.