Jazz Cliches and licks - I don't know

[Thumpalumpacus]

The teacher benefits too. That's the beauty of it.

[Stuart King]

That's a great question and after working seriously on improvisation for 15 - 20 years I came up with an answer. To keep it simple, basically, you have to stop thinking when you play.

Save the conscious, thinking or intellectual stuff for the practice room. Performing is about communicating emotionally. Allow the subconscious mind to sort out all that stuff out and everything will come out naturally. I like to completely disregard any thoughts about what I'm playing whatsoever and just focus on enjoying and getting in to the music, almost as if I'm not even aware of what my fingers are doing.

Being more aware of the energy and emotion in the music, the rhythm and the feeling and so on will take your attention away from what you should play and will allow everything to come out much more musically.

Have fun!

Stu

[Stevebol]

I tried something recently that seems to be working. I'm focusing on ii-V progressions not ii-V-I's. No harmonic considerations. I'm trying to give intervals more equal weight and I'm writing contrafacts.
In a nutshell I'm using 4ths and 11ths more in melodies and focusing on two chords. ii-V's can be random and all over the place so it's connect the dots.

[Stevebol]

"If something is working for you wear it out" - Every bluesman, ever.

[destinytot]

That's a great question and after working seriously on improvisation for 15 - 20 years I came up with an answer. To keep it simple, basically, you have to stop thinking when you play.

Save the conscious, thinking or intellectual stuff for the practice room. Performing is about communicating emotionally. Allow the subconscious mind to sort out all that stuff out and everything will come out naturally. I like to completely disregard any thoughts about what I'm playing whatsoever and just focus on enjoying and getting in to the music, almost as if I'm not even aware of what my fingers are doing.

Being more aware of the energy and emotion in the music, the rhythm and the feeling and so on will take your attention away from what you should play and will allow everything to come out much more musically.

Have fun!

Stu

Would it be reasonable to call that 'focusing on expression'?

[destinytot]

I personally think that our styles, in music, writing, art, or other creative endeavors, are often defined by our limitations, and I'm not sure that that's a bad thing. I've heard seemingly limitless guitarists who sound like nothing because they sound like everything.

Great point, Thump!

[destinytot]

I tried something recently that seems to be working. I'm focusing on ii-V progressions not ii-V-I's. .

Nice... "I stopped to talk with Huckleberry Finn!"

[Stuart King]

Would it be reasonable to call that 'focusing on expression'?

Sure, as long as are you're not thinking about focusing on expression... Haha. Don't think, just play

[destinytot]

Sure, as long as are you're not thinking ?about focusing on expression... Haha. Don't think, just play

Nice - I believe that's how sophisticates shut out emotion. (In this music called 'jazz', I think it's done with Maths.)

I'll make two observations - before, like a Mad Dog and Englishman, I go out in the midday sun:

Firstly, I totally agree that connection to emotion is important - and I'll add that I think facing dark emotions is paramount.

As a way of getting past 'one's emotional gatekeepers' (if you will), I've found the technique of assigning a kind of 'supervisory role' (to what's been called 'monkey mind') to be useful - eg. watching the breath, or focusing awareness on bodily contact with the pick - but it adds nothing to the cohesion or coherence of one's outpouring.

Moreover, as the film Inside Out suggests, deviously hiding from - instead of engaging and allowing - dark emotions actually mitigates against the harmony and balance which the playing of this music might otherwise bring:

For this reason, secondly, I'm actually in favour of thinking - but without using that word in a blanket way. For example, I want to be able to interpret, evaluate, imagine and remember - all of which involve thought. Perhaps those are also 'intuitive'; if so, I think it becomes important to say so - rather than dismiss thinking altogether - when offering advice.

While I'm about it, unless one is just making conversation (with which, while it's a mistake, I have sympathy), I don't think it's at all helpful to present 'emotion' and 'feeling' as though they actually exist in music.

[Stuart King]

Nice - I believe that's how sophisticates shut out emotion. (In this music called 'jazz', I think it's done with Maths.)

I'll make two observations - before, like a Mad Dog and Englishman, I go out in the midday sun:

Firstly, I totally agree that connection to emotion is important - and I'll add that I think facing dark emotions is paramount.

As a way of getting past 'one's emotional gatekeepers' (if you will), I've found the technique of assigning a kind of 'supervisory role' (to what's been called 'monkey mind') to be useful - eg. watching the breath, or focusing awareness on bodily contact with the pick - but it adds nothing to the cohesion or coherence of one's outpouring.

Moreover, as the film Inside Out suggests, deviously hiding from - instead of engaging and allowing - dark emotions actually mitigates against the harmony and balance which the playing of this music might otherwise bring:

For this reason, secondly, I'm actually in favour of thinking - but without using that word in a blanket way. For example, I want to be able to interpret, evaluate, imagine and remember - all of which involve thought. Perhaps those are also 'intuitive'; if so, I think it becomes important to say so - rather than dismiss thinking altogether - when offering advice.

While I'm about it, unless one is just making conversation (with which, while it's a mistake, I have sympathy), I don't think it's at all helpful to present 'emotion' and 'feeling' as though they actually exist in music.

I've found I play better if I don't consciously think about what I'm doing. For example, I don't think about how to walk, it's subconscious.

Whilst emotion and feeling in music is subjective, these feelings exist within, and can be felt when playing.

If I ignore my thoughts about what I'm playing (or what I think I should be playing) and just focus on expressing whatever the emotion or feeling I have about the tune, I play much better.

[destinytot]

Regarding expression, I find the same - and I use that word myself.

But I like to be pragmatic.

Having learned to 'hear' (loudly) progressions and 'feel' a groove in my mind, and to recognise potential ideas as soon as - like moles on a lawn - their little noses pop up into view, I find that I can 'filter' my own impulses.

I believe 'filtering' involves thought, awareness and concentration. I think it involves more than 'feeling', because it also involves accountability to standards - to knowledge and truth. I'm not talking about filtering as some kind of stifling or repression. As I say, I believe that it involves thought, awareness and concentration - and that involves sacrifice (of which mental strain is a relatively small part).

Because I've stopped accepting all ideas as having equal utility or worth. (Perhaps the most important part of the process of what I'm calling 'thinking' is 'pausing' - to gather oneself.)

I don't need to think about the way I walk in order to alter my route when unforeseen circumstances occur - but I might need to consciously control (inhibit or contain, and thereby limit the effect of) undesirable subconscious impulses in reaction to obstacles when these are not dangerous but innocuous.

I take the view that this manifests in music as a multitude of sins - all avoidable, all inappropriate - which impede self-expression.

[Stuart King]

Regarding expression, I find the same - and I use that word myself.

But I like to be pragmatic.

Having learned to 'hear' (loudly) progressions and 'feel' a groove in my mind, and to recognise potential ideas as soon as - like moles on a lawn - their little noses pop up into view, I find that I can 'filter' my own impulses.

I believe 'filtering' involves thought, awareness and concentration. I think it involves more than 'feeling', because it also involves accountability to standards - to knowledge and truth. I'm not talking about filtering as some kind of stifling or repression. As I say, I believe that it involves thought, awareness and concentration - and that involves sacrifice (of which mental strain is a relatively small part).

Because I've stopped accepting all ideas as having equal utility or worth. (Perhaps the most important part of the process of what I'm calling 'thinking' is 'pausing' - to gather oneself.)

I don't need to think about the way I walk in order to alter my route when unforeseen circumstances occur - but I might need to consciously control (inhibit or contain, and thereby limit the effect of) undesirable subconscious impulses in reaction to obstacles when these are not dangerous but innocuous.

I take the view that this manifests in music as a multitude of sins - all avoidable, all inappropriate - which impede self-expression.

Awareness is an interesting point. When playing I'm aware of the chords, where I am in the form, the time and so on. Often I'm aware of the melody when soloing. That's always there, unless my concentration is broken, say by someone coming and talking to me whilst I'm playing.
For me, however, the critical part of me that thinks and analyses everything I'm doing inevitably gets in the way of expression. I'll lose confidence, play with hesitation, the time and the phrasing will suffer and so on. If I change my focus away from that, toward the music and listen to what the band is doing and so on, there is improvement in all areas, plus the enjoyment of playing returns. I've learned this about myself through recording myself at gigs, in practice and at recording sessions. I get paralysis by analysis basically

[destinytot]

Awareness is an interesting point. When playing I'm aware of the chords, where I am in the form, the time and so on. Often I'm aware of the melody when soloing. That's always there, unless my concentration is broken, say by someone coming and talking to me whilst I'm playing.
For me, however, the critical part of me that thinks and analyses everything I'm doing inevitably gets in the way of expression. I'll lose confidence, play with hesitation, the time and the phrasing will suffer and so on. If I change my focus away from that, toward the music and listen to what the band is doing and so on, there is improvement in all areas, plus the enjoyment of playing returns. I've learned this about myself through recording myself at gigs, in practice and at recording sessions. I get paralysis by analysis basically

There are different levels of detail and of abstraction.

I don't think 'jazz' can happen until you have knowledge resources in place - so I agree about getting past the level where you need to think about putting 'tab A into slot A'. But I think that's the level where practice pays off - building facility for the application and execution of ideas. That's fundamental.

The level I was talking about is about judicious use of those ideas - and whether to express them at all. Some of my best playing doesn't exist, and it sounded great.

[destinytot]

If I change my focus away from that, toward the music and listen to what the band is doing and so on, there is improvement in all areas, plus the enjoyment of playing returns.

Like driving in traffic - one's 'bubble of awareness' needs to expand beyond the pedals and other controls.

[destinytot]

Awareness is an interesting point. When playing I'm aware of the chords, where I am in the form, the time and so on. Often I'm aware of the melody when soloing. That's always there, unless my concentration is broken, say by someone coming and talking to me whilst I'm playing.
For me, however, the critical part of me that thinks and analyses everything I'm doing inevitably gets in the way of expression. I'll lose confidence, play with hesitation, the time and the phrasing will suffer and so on. If I change my focus away from that, toward the music and listen to what the band is doing and so on, there is improvement in all areas, plus the enjoyment of playing returns. I've learned this about myself through recording myself at gigs, in practice and at recording sessions. I get paralysis by analysis basically