1-6-2-5 (Rhythm Changes) Lines Advice

[jamiehenderson1993]

...

[James W]

There is a ton of stuff you can do with this progression but the place to start probably is simplifying it to I (I-VI) and V (II-V) chords.

[AllanAllen]

47-50

50 Jazz Guitar Licks

[AllanAllen]

Have you considered jamming some C7 blues lines over the whole thing? Worked pretty good for a generation of swing players.

[GuyBoden]

Steal some licks.

[befiddled]

47-50

50 Jazz Guitar Licks

These are nice! Thanks.

[Mick-7]

Hi all,

I'm currently trying to play over a number of tunes that revolve around I-VI-ii-V (C-A7-Dm7-G7)... Polkadots; I Can't Get Started; Stars Fell on Alabama etc.

I'm looking for some inspiration to learn some 'beginner' 1-6-2-5 lines / arpeggios etc.

I have looked into a Barry Greene Lesson (Linear Turnaround Secrets) which was brilliant, as well as the Joe Pass Guitar Style book where he has a few 'etudes' that were really helpful.

Any advice for a beginner getting started running lines over this form.

I'd start by mapping out the chord tones/tonal center. The chords are all in C major if the VI chord is diatonic, i.e., Am7, and if it's dominant (A7), it has only the nondiatonic note C# - F# too but that can be overlooked at first or use C lydian (G major) which includes it. You can just add the C# to the D dorian minor (C major) scale to play over it. That gives you an 8 note scale with every note you need: D-E-F-G-A-B-C-C#. Practice improvising with that scale - make up and sing/play lines from it, etc.

Another route is to outline and connect the chord arpeggios in various ways, e.g., C-E-G-B > C#-E-A-G > D-F-A-C > B-D-G-F.

Then add other scales notes, like say: E-B-D-C > C#-B-A-G > C-A-Bb-C > B-Ab(b9)-G-F - etc.

[buduranus2]

Hi all,

I'm looking for some inspiration to learn some 'beginner' 1-6-2-5 lines / arpeggios etc.

I have looked into a Barry Greene Lesson (Linear Turnaround Secrets) which was brilliant, as well as the Joe Pass Guitar Style book where he has a few 'etudes' that were really helpful.

Any advice for a beginner getting started running lines over this form.

Hi Jamie. There are many much more advanced players on the forum than I am, so maybe I have an advantage over them when it comes to a developing player like yourself.

The "Linear Turnaround Secrets" kind of sets the table. In a structure like "rhythm changes" it's ALL turnarounds. So that puts it in the realm of blues, at least for me. The way I look at turnarounds is V7 > I. So an easy way to "jazz it up" is to use the b9 as the leading tone. Now you have some diminished arpeggios at your disposal.

I consider myself to be an intermediate-level player. That is, I can do the basic thing and have it sound (and hopefully feel) like "jazz." If I had to give a self-evaluation, I'd call myself a "pre-bopper" with bebop pretensions. Anyhoo, here's a clip of me from some years ago. Best to you!

[CliffR]

Great video here by Christian that explains how to simplify things:

And another even simpler approach:

[Christian Miller]

There ya go.

[jamiehenderson1993]

Thank you so much everyone - so much stuff to dig into!

It really is true - the albums are the textbooks (and stealing from the greats is the fast track!)

[Christian Miller]

Thank you so much everyone - so much stuff to dig into!

It really is true - the albums are the textbooks (and stealing from the greats is the fast track!)

Pro tip - any line that works on Bb Bb7 Eb Ebm or F-7 Bb7 Eb Ab7 etc (ie bars 5-6 of a rhythm tune) also sounds great on Bb G7 C-7 F7

[PMB]

Pro tip - any line that works on Bb Bb7 Eb Ebm or F-7 Bb7 Eb Ab7 etc (ie bars 5-6 of a rhythm tune) also sounds great on Bb G7 C-7 F7

Yes, there's a lot of minor plagal or double plagal over dominants in Parker. Check out the minor iv line over V in bar 2.

[Christian Miller]

Yes, there's a lot of minor plagal or double plagal over dominants in Parker. Check out the minor iv line over V in bar 2.

What is double plagal? Is it bVII7?



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[charlieparker]

Pro tip - any line that works on Bb Bb7 Eb Ebm or F-7 Bb7 Eb Ab7 etc (ie bars 5-6 of a rhythm tune) also sounds great on Bb G7 C-7 F7

Dare I ask why? Is Bb7 a substitution for G7, etc?

[Christian Miller]

Dare I ask why? Is Bb7 a substitution for G7, etc?

Short answer - it’s a thing people do

Long answer - how long have you got, and how much do you want to put off doing some practice?

I mean I can send you an abstruse dissertation by Steve Coleman involving negative harmony if you like. Something to do with the Moon and the Sun and ancient Vedic texts?

Tbh I tuned out a bit

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[PMB]

What is double plagal? Is it bVII7?



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I've heard that term used for a number of different plagal resolutions including 'subdominant of the subdominant' (ie, bVII - IV - I or IV/IV IV I). I suppose major-minor plagal is a clearer expression of the movement here: IV to iv (Eb to Ebm) or its close relative IV to bVII (Eb to Ab7).

[Christian Miller]

I’m not convinced if it works the other way round.


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[Christian Miller]

I've heard that term used for a number of different plagal resolutions including 'subdominant of the subdominant' (ie, bVII - IV - I or IV/IV IV I). I suppose major-minor plagal is a clearer expression of the movement here: IV to iv (Eb to Ebm) or its close relative IV to bVII (Eb to Ab7).

I assumed it was similar to ‘double dominant’ ie II7. Or V/V or whatever.

Presumably a triple subdominant/plagal would be bIIImaj7 or sommat.

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[PMB]

I assumed it was similar to ‘double dominant’ ie II7. Or V/V or whatever.

Presumably a triple subdominant/plagal would be bIIImaj7 or sommat.

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Triple subdominant plagal with oat milk.

[Mick-7]

What is double plagal?

It's positively bubonic.

Dare I ask why? Is Bb7 a substitution for G7, etc?

You have the diminished minor 3rds relationship: G7b9 (no root) = Bb7b9, Db7b9 & E7b9 (all rootless), i.e., scale: G-Ab-Bb-B-Db-D-E-F.

Same with Ab7 for F7(b9), and Ebm6 = Cm7b5, etc.

[Christian Miller]

It's positively bubonic.



You have the diminished minor 3rds relationship: G7b9 (no root) = Bb7b9, Db7b9 & E7b9 (all rootless), i.e., scale: G-Ab-Bb-B-Db-D-E-F.

The furtleburbler is undoubtedly related to fopplebunja and fartleblaster by delirious symmetry.

Meanwhile, I would encourage the OP to 'play that thing'. And to check out the solos posted for examples of this type of thing.

[Mick-7]

The furtleburbler is undoubtedly related to fopplebunja and fartleblaster by delirious symmetry.

I must contest that statement: it's well known that fopplebunjas find delirium to be reprehensible, although they have no such objection to euphoria.

[Christian Miller]

I must contest that statement: it's well known that fopplebunjas find delirium to be reprehensible, although they have no such objection to euphoria.

We won’t be having any of that thank you. Music is not fun, and if you are having it you are doing it wrong.


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[Mick-7]

We won’t be having any of that thank you. Music is not fun, and if you are having it you are doing it wrong.

Unfortunately, in the case of jazz, you may be right.