Instantly playing what you've just heard.

[frabarmus]

Just my opinion as a life long ear player...

I see mention of how knowing the note names on the finger board and recognizing intervals helps in playing by ear.

I'm a life long ear player too. When I mentioned knowing the fingerboard perfectly well as a possible tool for immediately playing what you hear (in your head, when improvising, that is) what I meant was: if your fingers know their way perfectly well around the fingerboard then they'll be able to "instinctively" and immediatly perform whatever you are hearing in your head (or someone else playing) in real time. So not so much about knowing where the note-names are on the fretboard but more about where the pitches are (which your ear immediately perceives and recognises). So it's the fingers that need ear training rather than the player, so to speak... teaching one's fingers to orient themselves better and better on the fretboard so they're ready to quickly move in the right direction when you (correctly!) hear a line (or a chord) which, of course, is composed of intervals. So the question is (in my opinion): what's the best way to achieve this? One way is playing by ear... another, more "technical" way is playing every possible interval (actually memorising) on the fretboard (training your fingers' sense of direction). Any more ideas? "Technical" things to practice that might facilitate our search for the (longed for) entrance to the zone (which is where we don't even have to play, as it's the music that plays us, when we're in the zone!)...

[Cunamara]

There is a story about Johnny Smith visiting friends, who played him the Barney Kessel Poll Winners album. He was asked what he thought of Barney's solo on a particular song; Johnny picked up his guitar and said, "play it again." He then played along with the record, perfectly duplicating Barney's solo having only heard it once.

Johnny learned to play guitar, in part, by listening to Django Reinhardt recordings. He would buy the latest record, put it on his record player and copy what he heard. The record wore out after about five plays, so he got very good at picking up the information very quickly. I think 50, 60, 70 years ago most aspiring jazz musicians learned by copying off recordings. Prior to that, they learned on the bandstand from other musicians firsthand. Now, aspiring jazz musicians have almost no opportunity to learn the craft on stage because there are hardly any gigs. So we've come up with all sorts of jazz pedagogy, online lessons, method books, etc., etc. to make up for the lack of opportunity to learn the music properly. I don't know if that means it's harder to learn how to play "authentic" jazz, although I don't know what authentic means in this context, anyway.

In any event, music is an auditory-emotional experience and learning music by ear is probably the most direct way to access that.

[BradGuitar]

There is a story about Johnny Smith visiting friends, who played him the Barney Kessel Poll Winners album. He was asked what he thought of Barney's solo on a particular song; Johnny picked up his guitar and said, "play it again." He then played along with the record, perfectly duplicating Barney's solo having only heard it once.

Johnny learned to play guitar, in part, by listening to Django Reinhardt recordings. He would buy the latest record, put it on his record player and copy what he heard. The record wore out after about five plays, so he got very good at picking up the information very quickly. I think 50, 60, 70 years ago most aspiring jazz musicians learned by copying off recordings. Prior to that, they learned on the bandstand from other musicians firsthand. Now, aspiring jazz musicians have almost no opportunity to learn the craft on stage because there are hardly any gigs. So we've come up with all sorts of jazz pedagogy, online lessons, method books, etc., etc. to make up for the lack of opportunity to learn the music properly. I don't know if that means it's harder to learn how to play "authentic" jazz, although I don't know what authentic means in this context, anyway.

In any event, music is an auditory-emotional experience and learning music by ear is probably the most direct way to access that.

I think there’s a hell of a lot to say for that most definitely. I’d also add, which has probably been the case since forever, but certainly seems more prevalent in today’s society… is the instant gratification factor. We want everything now (well I do) and everything is available to us at the touch of a phone screen. We’ve lost the ability to be patient with ourselves and a lot of us turn and run the other way when faced with having to take the hard yards, like those that came before us had no choice about.

Getting plenty of right answers on an ear training app gives us that instant hit of dopamine compared to getting nowhere after two hours on a two bar phrase. But the latter, I believe, is better in the long run. As the old cliche goes, sometimes “the journey is more important than the destination”.

[pauln]

I'm a life long ear player too. When I mentioned knowing the fingerboard perfectly well as a possible tool for immediately playing what you hear (in your head, when improvising, that is) what I meant was: if your fingers know their way perfectly well around the fingerboard then they'll be able to "instinctively" and immediatly perform whatever you are hearing in your head (or someone else playing) in real time. So not so much about knowing where the note-names are on the fretboard but more about where the pitches are (which your ear immediately perceives and recognises). So it's the fingers that need ear training rather than the player, so to speak... teaching one's fingers to orient themselves better and better on the fretboard so they're ready to quickly move in the right direction when you (correctly!) hear a line (or a chord) which, of course, is composed of intervals. So the question is (in my opinion): what's the best way to achieve this? One way is playing by ear... another, more "technical" way is playing every possible interval (actually memorising) on the fretboard (training your fingers' sense of direction). Any more ideas? "Technical" things to practice that might facilitate our search for the (longed for) entrance to the zone (which is where we don't even have to play, as it's the music that plays us, when we're in the zone!)...

Yes, your fingers "learn the fret board", that's the way it feels to me, too. Some call that "muscle memory" but it is really "aural memory" of the fingers. The result is that it feels like singing through your hands, When learning a new song it feels like teaching the song to your guitar, and when performing it feels like the guitar knows the tune and plays itself. All this comes from progressively moving focus away from the mechanics and elevating your musical motive into higher levels of integration (and trusting your fingers). Of course, the basis for refocusing off finger mechanics requires the mechanical foundation be firmly in place, developed through time and experience.

The fingers don't have ears; they learn through your ears, so you must listen to what they produce in order for them to learn by "knowing" they got it right or wrong. Ear players tend to audiate everything they play, which helps the fingers. The more "open loop" methods that reserve distinct periods for "ear training" may not provide enough confidence in the fingers and continue to rely on mechanics.