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Just found this slow blues tune... was on my phone. Can't remember from where. I'm pretty sure I was just subbing.
Around mm60. Nothing special, made sure not to take longer solo than bands leader.... and stay simple, but at the end, went to tritone sub chord, bass player caught it.
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03-24-2020 06:37 PM
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Slow samba.
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Originally Posted by Reg
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Hey rp... cool tune... loved the 1st part... Maybe we'll get together again after the....
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Thanks corpse... Tom's a world class or at least use to be world touring Bluegrass player... that bassist toured with the Like a Virgin Madonna tour... He's been playing jazz for 10 years or so. I got a chance to play with Mr Dawg years back... still hang with the band sometimes. Matt the crazy flutist or Flautist and family are lifelong friends.
Just to be clear... the tune and performance... isn't much besides being SLOW
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I am really loving all of these new videos, reg! Please post many as you can . Love seeing them. There's one in particular which was online a few years ago which seems to have disappeared, not one that you posted yourself. It was a video of large ensemble with horns with your organist you sometimes play with, Larkin tune. Anyway, I thought it was really cool because it was a pretty good size group with multiple horns etc. , but featured the guitarist as one of the only couple of solos I think. Love to see reg in the wild.
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To the original OP - the idea of swinging versus just going doubletime at really slow tempos - I think it's an interesting conversation. I think there are multiple layers for talking about it.
Is everyone in the group somewhat limiting to swing eights? (Very often the drummer is somewhat subdividing more.) If it's not doubletime, is it naturally going to default more to 12/8? At the very least, I think most real players are going to at least default to HEARING more 12/8. Probably going to be implied in the slurs, grace notes , releases etc. etc.
I have found personally that the more subdivision I hear internally, the fatter and crisper upper levels are. The unintended consequence of working more on double time slow feels and slow 12/8 blues is that my quarter notes and eight notes at ALL tempos sound better and swing harder. I think it's mostly the releases. Releases , grace notes , slides and all those other articulations are basically heard subconsciously until you've done some of the work yourself. Negative space is berry difficult to hear otherwise.
There are also degrees to which individual members of great ensembles are doing certain levels of this all at the same time. I listen to lot of the same recordings of Keith Jarrett trio on a weekly basis. (I'll confess to this being my default nap music, but it really helps with analyzing something over months and especially years). Anyway, one thing they do really well is playing doubletime over the entire form very slowly on ballads. At the beginning of the tune, it's mostly 100% masked, with subtle hints in microscopic phrasing in places. It's mostly just implied by the fact that it's straight 8ths , but even THOSE are disguised by an abundance of quarter and 8th-note-triplet subdivisions.
Anyway, usually begins with the drummer somewhat pushing at the ends of phrases and the other two giving in or pushing off by keeping things more subdued . Then, a second chorus maybe the drummer is more explicitly playing double time, while the keyboard and bass are still basically disguising and laying back on a more straightahead slow-four. There are degrees to which these are done more at the end of phrases only, compared to later where everyone's just locking into the same feel.
Sometimes, they finish out the tune with everyone locked in, full ahead doubletime feel. Other times there's an arc of going back to the feel from the beginning, closing out with the intro feel. Anyway, my point is that all of those multiple layers, across the form, between players etc. etc., are also possible with a 12/8 /swing feel. there may be an important distinction between what is "heard" versus what is explicitly played.
I wonder if great players are ever "not hearing" smaller subdivisions, regardless of what feel they're playing on top explicitly?
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Originally Posted by Reg
That tune is by Aecio Flavio, a Brazilian. His most famous tune is probably this one:
Leny Andrade
Some Bay Area folks.
As far as I know, he's not super well-known, but he wrote some good tunes.
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Tom can play!
His solos speak for themselves. Melodic, rhythmic and you can feel them.
I'll add that he has great time feel on everything he plays. Worth paying attention to the way he comps.
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If you are thinking about locking into the upbeat, you are not, as Miles said, "swinging." "Swinging" is about the soul you put into your playing and how that is interpreted in the sound. It isn't just about how when you strike an eighth-note and when you release that note (if you are, for example playing an eighth-note for exactly an eighth note, you are not "swinging").
Listen to almost any NON-pro jazz guitarist on YT, then listen to a pro and you will hear the difference. They play all of the same notes in one measure, but it sounds better.
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People get the path confused with the destination.
Look just go and talk to drummer and ask what they practice. Guitar players often come out with stuff like the last post, which is all true but utterly unhelpful.
Professionals sound professional because they sweat the details.
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Originally Posted by Duffy Pratt
The story goes that Neil Hefti, who wrote Lil' Darling and the arrangement of it, originally intended it to be played medium swing. On a rehearsal, Marshall Royal was working through the arrangement with the band as per Hefti's intentions while Basie was sitting relaxed and absentminded in a corner, preoccupied with the latest copy of some horse race magazine. After a long time he got up, clapped his hands and said: "I don't know, maybe we should try this as a ballad". And Lil' Darling as we know it was born. But perhaps, after all, this story is just - well, a story.
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
I think 6 on ballads. But it doesn't have to do with this really. Although we can talk about it here, it's just not that interesting to me. It's ok, I'm laid back.
What I do is play my stock bebop phrases, the one's I've been playing forever and could play in my sleep. Strings of 8th notes and a few triplets. It sounds ridiculous. Looking back, a fine approach would just be to slow down a recording of yourself at a normal tempo. It might not sound as great as you think.
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People like ballads because they get to play fast
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Hey Rp... thanks, yea met Mary through Terrence few years back... and then Marcos from way back. Yea all friends, Scotty, Erik
Who was on gig... the tempo thing LOL
Don't know Horta... but dig his playing, more of a pop thing... but then what is Brazilian.
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Originally Posted by corpse
It's fun to record slow and speed it up. I'm going to do that now.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Had a slow go at "Alone Together" this week (I think this is 62bpm?)
I don't play a lot of straight 8ths. In general, I don't.
Gonna try some slower stuff. This is fun.
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Originally Posted by Hugo Gainly
Great talent..
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I see 'slow', like beauty, is beginning to be in the eye of the beholder... I think the OP said, what, 50 or something?
But I'll say it again - personally I wouldn't try to swing at a very, very slow pace, it's a contradiction in terms unless you double (or quadruple) up on the time.
Dum.........de.........dum.........de.........dum. ........de......... I mean, it's not moosicle, is it?
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Alone, six feet apart
Quite right, blues can be done very slow.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
1. I'm not talking about performance tempos. Or approaching ballads.
2. Dum de dum de dum de dum doesn't sound good at any tempo. It also wouldn't be a challenge to play even at the slowest tempo because you are locking in each note.
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Originally Posted by corpse
I'm obviously missing something.
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