What one exercise has improved your technique/playing ability the most?

[mercosound]

I spent a lot of time a lot of years ago learning arpeggios - ascending, staring with the root, running thru I, ii, iii, IV, etc. chords in each of the 6 common scale patterns. A little while back I came across a sample lesson somewhere online suggesting practicing descending arps starting with chord tones other than the root. I've found that playing descending arps starting with the 3rd, 5th or 7th of the chord - I, viib5, vi, V, etc, has been a more helpful exercise than I expected it to be.

[sgcim]

It is not a particular exercise, but helped me instantly to get more control over what comes out:

(I use strict alternate picking) So take any scale or pattern exercise, and pick it inverse, I mean start with up pick. The goal that it must sound indistinguishably compared to the start with down pick version.

Benefits:

- It makes your picking hand more like an execution slave of your original intention, and what comes out (the sound I mean) is more independent on the picking hand's situation, and more dependent what you hear internally and what you want to execute dynamically.

- It instantly doubles your picking hand exercises. All string switch are inverted what was down/up becomes up/down and vice versa.

- It forces you to slow down, and do things "nicely". You really must listen to the executed sound, and that must sound good.

I've been doing this with exercises for a while, and I found that I could only get it up to 16th notes at about 128 bpm. Above that, I feel like a 'brake' comes on my picking, and I have to go back to down up picking. Does this happen to you?

[Gabor]

I've been doing this with exercises for a while, and I found that I could only get it up to 16th notes at about 128 bpm. Above that, I feel like a 'brake' comes on my picking, and I have to go back to down up picking. Does this happen to you?

I am not sure what tempo do you mean? The tempo you are referring is for example Donna Lee (8th notes) with 256 bpm, which is pretty impressive, I wish I could play that tempo.

***

When I am doing this, my max tempo is 90 bpm, using the metronome as 2,4 and playing 8th notes. (this means 360 picks per minute). Of course changing back to normal down/up picking allows more speed me too. However one of the benefits of the exercise is exactly what you described. It forces me to switch my mind from chasing speed to focus on execution quality, the evenness of phrasing, the very accurate tempo keeping, the tone and the synchronization of the left an right hand.

[sgcim]

I am not sure what tempo do you mean? The tempo you are referring is for example Donna Lee (8th notes) with 256 bpm, which is pretty impressive, I wish I could play that tempo.

***

When I am doing this, my max tempo is 90 bpm, using the metronome as 2,4 and playing 8th notes. (this means 360 picks per minute). Of course changing back to normal down/up picking allows more speed me too. However one of the benefits of the exercise is exactly what you described. It forces me to switch my mind from chasing speed to focus on execution quality, the evenness of phrasing, the very accurate tempo keeping, the tone and the synchronization of the left an right hand.

I can play Donna Lee using down-up, alternate picking as 8ths at 304 to 312 bpm (setting the metronome on 152-156 bpm), but that's not using up-down picking.
I can only play simple exercises like 1-2-3-4, and scales using UP-DOWN picking up to 256 bpm (16ths at 128). I do this because of the advice of Pat Martino and others, to be able to use 'inverse picking' on exercises that you normally play using down-up picking.

I was just wondering if you also find it impossible to play exercises as fast as you can using inverse picking as you can when using down-up picking.

[Gabor]

I was just wondering if you also find it impossible to play exercises as fast as you can using inverse picking as you can when using down-up picking. I'm talking about the advice of guitarists like Pat Martino and a few others who are also alternate pickers that you

Yes, when doing the exercise with inverse picking, I can only execute it with 10-25% percent less speed, depending on the exercise itself. I do it for everything, including scales, patterns and even for the arpeggios too.

[coolvinny]

About all this picking speed stuff, one concept I got hipped to during my year of playing drums is that there is "sprint" speed and there is "sustained' speed. It's good to practice both, as they are different...both physically and mentally.

[sgcim]

Yes, when doing the exercise with inverse picking, I can only execute it with 10-25% percent less speed, depending on the exercise itself. I do it for everything, including scales, patterns and even for the arpeggios too.

Yeah, there seems to be something about inverse picking which limits your ability to play at the same tempos as you can when you're picking down-up, normally.
When you try to play at faster tempos, I found myself 'cheating', by going back to down-up picking at a certain point. When you're doing it at faster tempos, it's impossible to tell if you're reverting back to down-up, because you can't tell at those tempos.
I deluded myself for months, thinking that I was using inverse picking at 320bpm, when I was actually reverting back to down-up without being aware of it. I only found out when i slowed the exercises down.
One guy on another forum claims he can use inverse picking at 400bpm! He's probably reverting back to down-up without realizing it.

I wonder if Pat Martino's ability to inverse pick at fast tempos accounts for his tremendous facility in his alternate picking.

[henryrobinett]

I have so many exercises that have been good for me and I was scanning various things I’ve done while reading this thread. But I thought I’d chime in on the inverse picking thing. Now this is just me but for the last few years I’ve been concentrating on phrasing and how pick direction, left hand squeezes, slurs etc. define the phrase. I used to practice inverse picking too. My rant has been and continues to be the idea that most guitar players don’t think about this other than intuitively.

I just think inverse picking totally screws up the phrase. Downstroke should, as a rule, fall on the downbeat or at least the real accent. The upstroke has a different sound. It’s supposed to. Inverse picking was, for me, useful if I made a mistake and got my picking backwards then I could continue and not mess up. But true alternate picking is down, up, down up, etc. It doesn’t change because you go to the next string. And it’s not just about efficiency with regards speed. Just because something might be ergonomically more efficient doesn’t mean it sounds good or grooves. Each rhythmic cell should be rhythmically defined.

So guitar players who kind of sound funny and the swing doesn’t exactly swing like the tenor or piano player or drummer, it’s most often attributed to this, I think. Every note is picked and pick direction is almost haphazard.

I’m no master at this at all. Not even close. I’m just observing.


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[sgcim]

I have so many exercises that have been good for me and I was scanning various things I’ve done while reading this thread. But I thought I’d chime in on the inverse picking thing. Now this is just me but for the last few years I’ve been concentrating on phrasing and how pick direction, left hand squeezes, slurs etc. define the phrase. I used to practice inverse picking too. My rant has been and continues to be the idea that most guitar players don’t think about this other than intuitively.

I just think inverse picking totally screws up the phrase. Downstroke should, as a rule, fall on the downbeat or at least the real accent. The upstroke has a different sound. It’s supposed to. Inverse picking was, for me, useful if I made a mistake and got my picking backwards then I could continue and not mess up. But true alternate picking is down, up, down up, etc. It doesn’t change because you go to the next string. And it’s not just about efficiency with regards speed. Just because something might be ergonomically more efficient doesn’t mean it sounds good or grooves. Each rhythmic cell should be rhythmically defined.

So guitar players who kind of sound funny and the swing doesn’t exactly swing like the tenor or piano player or drummer, it’s most often attributed to this, I think. Every note is picked and pick direction is almost haphazard.

I’m no master at this at all. Not even close. I’m just observing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with you. In my case, I'm just doing the inverse picking thing to improve my alternate picking (down-up) technique.

[Gabor]

I have so many exercises that have been good for me and I was scanning various things I’ve done while reading this thread. But I thought I’d chime in on the inverse picking thing. Now this is just me but for the last few years I’ve been concentrating on phrasing and how pick direction, left hand squeezes, slurs etc. define the phrase. I used to practice inverse picking too. My rant has been and continues to be the idea that most guitar players don’t think about this other than intuitively.

I just think inverse picking totally screws up the phrase. Downstroke should, as a rule, fall on the downbeat or at least the real accent. The upstroke has a different sound. It’s supposed to. Inverse picking was, for me, useful if I made a mistake and got my picking backwards then I could continue and not mess up. But true alternate picking is down, up, down up, etc. It doesn’t change because you go to the next string. And it’s not just about efficiency with regards speed. Just because something might be ergonomically more efficient doesn’t mean it sounds good or grooves. Each rhythmic cell should be rhythmically defined.

So guitar players who kind of sound funny and the swing doesn’t exactly swing like the tenor or piano player or drummer, it’s most often attributed to this, I think. Every note is picked and pick direction is almost haphazard.

I’m no master at this at all. Not even close. I’m just observing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly this "different sounding" issue made me to conclude, that my picking hand does not execute faithfully my (musical) intention, the sound, the phrase, the accents, instead that picking hand rules. I do not want this, I want (my melody intention) to rule my picking hand. I also hear what you describes as "who kind of sound funny and the swing doesn’t exactly swing". and I try to solve this issue. I see the asymmetry of up/down as you, but I've chosen to try to minimize this effect (to be able execute any accent, phrasing regardless the picking situation), so I would like to execute any accent, phrase series (not evennes, I do not want to sound like a machine gun) regardless the up/down and string switch position.

So I figured out, this "start with an upstroke and try to execute the same phrasing". I even did not know the name "inverse". I agree with you and understand that it will not be possible 100%. However after doing my exercises both down/up and up/down, I noticed instantly an improvement in slow melody articulation. Still what I hear is far from what I imagined to play, but definitely closer. Maybe it is because I got a little bit more control over my picking hand thanks to this exercise. Of course when playing I use down/up not inverse, and I feel I got more control over the issue you are describing.

Regarding swing, I do not fully understand how can I exclusively execute accents with downpicks. In Donna Lee for example the accents constantly vary from down beat to up beat and back (from even note to odd note), the melody dictates it. When I use standard alternate picking of the 8ths, even in the first 2 bars there are multiple notes where I must place accents to uppick...