Patterns for Jazz Study Group - August 2019

**Bach5G** · 08-16-2019, 12:17 PM

I just discovered this thread. I’ve owned PfJ since approx. 1975, but never made any headway. Watching/listening to the videos, it makes a lot more sense. So, I’m going to give it a another shot.

Any advice about getting started would be welcome!

**ErikWasser** · 08-16-2019, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Bach5G

I just discovered this thread. I’ve owned PfJ since approx. 1975, but never made any headway. Watching/listening to the videos, it makes a lot more sense. So, I’m going to give it a another shot.

Any advice about getting started would be welcome!

This is a perfect place to jump in with pattern 60, and you are very welcome! You can always work on the previous patterns on your own or through the former threads (Matt, who is the boss, made a good summery thread somewhere). Everyone goes at it at their own pace anyway (which is great!).

**Bach5G** · 08-17-2019, 12:22 AM

Is there a link to backing tracks? IReal Pro perhaps?

**FwLineberry** · 08-17-2019, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by Bach5G

Is there a link to backing tracks? IReal Pro perhaps?

I've been making my own as I go in Ireal and BIAB.

If you dig around this thread over at the Ireal forum, you can find a few different posts

Jazz Practice Exercises - Page 22

.

**Bach5G** · 08-17-2019, 01:46 AM

Perfect. Thank you.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 08-17-2019, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Bach5G

Is there a link to backing tracks? IReal Pro perhaps?

I've used the drum genius app on my phone for all of mine.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

**matt.guitarteacher** · 08-17-2019, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Bach5G

I just discovered this thread. I’ve owned PfJ since approx. 1975, but never made any headway. Watching/listening to the videos, it makes a lot more sense. So, I’m going to give it a another shot.

Any advice about getting started would be welcome!

Feel free to post in any of the threads. There's a thread index linked in post #1 of each thread.

**FwLineberry** · 08-18-2019, 04:44 PM

Patterns 56-57 combined - all variations - 8th notes at 120 bpm

**matt.guitarteacher** · 08-18-2019, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by FwLineberry

Patterns 56-57 combined - all variations - 8th notes at 120 bpm

All very musical, Forrest. Great production values and playing as always. Thanks so much for posting this.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 08-18-2019, 11:11 PM

It's interesting 61–62 have lower tempos marked than 60 , but I think on guitar these two may actually be easier.

**ErikWasser** · 08-20-2019, 03:39 PM

61 (about 120bpm)

edit: wrong numbering

**matt.guitarteacher** · 08-20-2019, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by ErikWasser

62 (about 120bpm)

Wow. Very cool and different . Multiple positions , two octaves etc. thanks for posting this.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 08-20-2019, 10:53 PM

Pattern 61 at 150bpm:

Pattern 60 rough, no click:

**MarkRhodes** · 08-22-2019, 11:02 AM

I planned to play each pattern twice, first with the root on the A string (3rd fret, C) and second with the root on the G string (5th fret, C). I did okay, I guess, until the second go at the second pattern. So I tried again and again and again. I think it's nearly 90 seconds in all.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 08-22-2019, 02:08 PM

Ok. It's interesting again to me that the variations on these 4ths patterns and 5ths patterns are actually EASIER to me than the original version. This must be a very guitar- specific thing, because, again, the tempo markings are actually lower on these variations. They end up laying out more like variations of 1235 type patterns to my ears/fingers. Anyone else have thoughts on these? Pretty quiet lately... :-)

We're a couple of weeks away from chromatic lower neighbor tone approaches, real "Jazz 101 -type stuff.

**FwLineberry** · 08-22-2019, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

Ok. It's interesting again to me that the variations on these 4ths patterns and 5ths patterns are actually EASIER to me than the original version. This must be a very guitar- specific thing, because, again, the tempo markings are actually lower on these variations. They end up laying out more like variations of 1235 type patterns to my ears/fingers. Anyone else have thoughts on these? Pretty quiet lately... :-)

We're a couple of weeks away from chromatic lower neighbor tone approaches, real "Jazz 101 -type stuff.

If I had to guess, I'd say it's a combination of a coupe factors. Descending 4ths are awkward on the guitar, but on a horn they're just a different fingering. It takes more effort to calculate the interval than it does to play it. I'm betting most horn players who approach this material have probably already messed around with 3rds at least in familiar keys. So the slower tempos would reflect that the other intervals are likely less familiar to the player and a little more taxing on the brain trying to keep track of where you're supposed to be going next.

It will be interesting when I get good enough on the clarinet to make use of this material.

.

**MarkRhodes** · 08-24-2019, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

Pattern 61 at 150bpm:

Thumb. Hey, Matt, the way you have your thumb in this video is something I'm working on lately. Usually when I grip the pick this way, my thumb is parallel to the strings. (This leads--for many--to the "underhand" approach where one tends to pull down with with pick. I've done that a lot but, in the end, it does not work for me. It works like gangbusters for others.) But I have my thumb pointing down---as you do here---it works better. For me. But it's far from second nature, so I have to concentrate on it and check for maintaining that poistion.

I think it shall prove to be a big deal for me. Hope so! My picking has sucked for longer than any single human being's picking should have to suck. ;o)

**MarkRhodes** · 08-24-2019, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

Ok. It's interesting again to me that the variations on these 4ths patterns and 5ths patterns are actually EASIER to me than the original version. This must be a very guitar- specific thing, because, again, the tempo markings are actually lower on these variations. They end up laying out more like variations of 1235 type patterns to my ears/fingers. Anyone else have thoughts on these? Pretty quiet lately... :-)

I find the 4ths easiest to play either along adjacent strings (-which is useful to be able to do, esp on the E/B and B/G strings) or with 3 nps fingerings.

I haven't worked with the 5ths (here) yet. I'll make a video of how I play the 4ths either tomorrow or Monday. I'm glad this group is here. And too, I'm glad that it has moved at a liesurely pace. It kept me from throwing in the towel too soon, I think. I think the next 3-6 months will be of great benefit to me. I hope the same proves true for others here.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 08-24-2019, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Thumb. Hey, Matt, the way you have your thumb in this video is something I'm working on lately. Usually when I grip the pick this way, my thumb is parallel to the strings. (This leads--for many--to the "underhand" approach where one tends to pull down with with pick. I've done that a lot but, in the end, it does not work for me. It works like gangbusters for others.) But I have my thumb pointing down---as you do here---it works better. For me. But it's far from second nature, so I have to concentrate on it and check for maintaining that poistion.

I think it shall prove to be a big deal for me. Hope so! My picking has sucked for longer than any single human being's picking should have to suck. ;o)

Honestly, everything I ever learned in terms of thinking about that pick angle, I learned from reading all the conversations you guys had in that other epic thread a few years ago.

My primary take away was that everything varies greatly from person to person, dependending on physiology. I have very much the opposite of Wes's or Reg's kind of double-jointed thumb. The other main takeaway I got from that thread was that I really didn't want to get bogged down in analyzing what my right hand was doing.

I was basically just aiming for a general upward pick slant. I allowed myself permission to change it, even in individual practice sessions etc. I mostly focused on cleaning up my left hand. I've worked on it a lot, and I and it helped tremendously. But I feel like I kinda got the right hand for free. Always felt like it was my left hand that needed catching up.

I guess that angle has gotten more extreme over time. It's kind weird to look at honestly.

**MarkRhodes** · 08-25-2019, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

Honestly, everything I ever learned in terms of thinking about that pick angle, I learned from reading all the conversations you guys had in that other epic thread a few years ago...

I guess that angle has gotten more extreme over time. It's kind weird to look at honestly.

I sometimes wish I had NEVER tried to change my picking. But I needed to. Not so much for speed as for consistency. It's hard to describe what I used to do but the result was my hand moved away from the strings at times---the result was inconsistency. And a very inconsistent inconsistency at that! Some times I could play fast and fine---yay! I've got it!---but later that same day I would butcher a passage I played right earlier. It was maddening.

As you say, it's about more than the pick---the angle of the wrist and arm, the motion, posture, all of it.
It turns out that the "underhand" approach is very comfortable for me. No stress or tension, easy-peasy, but it wasn't quite the sound I wanted and I found it hard to play medium-fast that way. (I could play tremolo stuff REALLY fast but that's not very important to me. Also, muting is a problem.)

This way, what I call "thumb down" (for lack of a better term) gives me more definition and is better for heads, blues lines, and comping. It also seems more consistent. I think this is what is going to work best for my "day in, day out." God, I hope so!

**FwLineberry** · 08-26-2019, 04:14 PM

Patterns 58 and 59 all variations in 8th notes at 140 bpm

Wow! This set did not want to be born. I finally got it worked up to a decent speed, but kept making too many mistakes to record it all as one drill. I ended up breaking it into four different takes on the same backing track. Topping that off, my stupid camera decided to go out of focus in the middle of a couple of shots, so sorry about that. This is as good as it's getting. It's time to move on to the next set.

.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 08-26-2019, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by FwLineberry

Patterns 58 and 59 all variations in 8th notes at 140 bpm

Wow! This set did not want to be born. I finally got it worked up to a decent speed, but kept making too many mistakes to record it all as one drill. I ended up breaking it into four different takes on the same backing track. Topping that off, my stupid camera decided to go out of focus in the middle of a couple of shots, so sorry about that. This is as good as it's getting. It's time to move on to the next set.

.

No worries. I thought it was one of your best. Good job.