Guitar Pick attack at fast speed

[MatsP]

I have read in countless forums on the net that the faster you play, the lighter the pick attack should be. It's not necessarily so, and it leads to rather uninteresting dynamics as well. Listen to John McLaughlin or Al Di Meola, John in particular. He's got a strong pick attack even during very speedy runs. In my book it's important to practice alternate picking (or economy for that matter) with a decently strong attack. It's always possible to loosen up from there, but the other way round is hard when you haven't trained the muscles enough. I read a good advice from Ney Mello, an excellent alternate picker. He says the way to increase the attack is not to dig in, but to increase the pressure on the pick with the fingers. That way you can continue hitting the string with only the very tip of the pick, avoiding the pick getting stuck. Comments welcome.

[MatsP]

What's more, practicing with a decent pick attack forces you to relax your hand in the right way, since trying to play fast and hard with a stiff hand is bound to cause pain sooner or later.

[MatsP]

On a side note, I have noticed that John McLaughlin supports the index finger on his picking hand with the middle finger for added stability and to minimize the sideways motion of the index finger, which isn't very good in the long run. He doesn't curl his index finger very much, most probably because that would cause the pick angle to become too big when he plays on the higher strings, since he anchors the palm of the hand at the bass side of the bridge, albeit loosely. This approach suits me pretty well, but it might not suit others of course.

[Groyniad]

this has always been a big thing for me

i've never been prepared to give up the assertiveness of a strong picking method - this is a feel thing as much as a sound thing

i've been having success recently with playing fast passages forcefully and quite loud (acoustically) -

very light picking compensated for by the vol. on the amp. is not a vibe or a sound i'm into

[AlsoRan]

In my practice, I try very hard to retain that aggressiveness at higher speeds.

[christianm77]

I have read in countless forums on the net that the faster you play, the lighter the pick attack should be. It's not necessarily so, and it leads to rather uninteresting dynamics as well. Listen to John McLaughlin or Al Di Meola, John in particular. He's got a strong pick attack even during very speedy runs. In my book it's important to practice alternate picking (or economy for that matter) with a decently strong attack. It's always possible to loosen up from there, but the other way round is hard when you haven't trained the muscles enough. I read a good advice from Ney Mello, an excellent alternate picker. He says the way to increase the attack is not to dig in, but to increase the pressure on the pick with the fingers. That way you can continue hitting the string with only the very tip of the pick, avoiding the pick getting stuck. Comments welcome.

I can play fast and loud. But I'm not an alternate picker - Gypsy Jazz picking.

You got to keep loose in the wrist. That's the tricky bit for me. You can practice tremolos maybe.

I doubt Meola or Jonny Mac would be as loud as Birelli etc acoustically. The point is perhaps not to develop volume (unless you want to be able to play without an amp) but to develop consistency. For some people that means making other areas of the playing quieter. For others it means making other bits loud.

But I think we all need to be relaxed.

[MatsP]

this has always been a big thing for me

i've never been prepared to give up the assertiveness of a strong picking method - this is a feel thing as much as a sound thing

i've been having success recently with playing fast passages forcefully and quite loud (acoustically) -

very light picking compensated for by the vol. on the amp. is not a vibe or a sound i'm into

Nice to hear. Yes, it's very much a feel thing, feeling the response from the string as it resists the pick. And it actually helps you relax more than if you were picking lightly in a curious way, at least in my experience.

[MatsP]

In my practice, I try very hard to retain that aggressiveness at higher speeds.

That's good then

[MatsP]

I can play fast and loud. But I'm not an alternate picker - Gypsy Jazz picking.

You got to keep loose in the wrist. That's the tricky bit for me. You can practice tremolos maybe.

I doubt Meola or Jonny Mac would be as loud as Birelli etc acoustically. The point is perhaps not to develop volume (unless you want to be able to play without an amp) but to develop consistency. For some people that means making other areas of the playing quieter. For others it means making other bits loud.

But I think we all need to be relaxed.

Being relaxed is important, of course. But not to the point where it gets sloppy. John McLaughlin once said that the hand needs to be strong, but still relaxed. One has to find the sweet spot where this happens I guess. And it's about developing volume as well in my book. There is a special sound to a hardly struck string. Correct on Meola and JM not being as loud as a gypsy picker. But they have a strong pick attack within the field of electrically amplified guitar. Granted, a gypsy picker probably has even stronger attack, and it comes naturally with that rest stroke thing as well, as far as I see it.

[Hep To The Jive]

Can someone provide the examples of soft touch at high speed? Any players that we know?

[AlsoRan]

Can someone provide the examples of soft touch at high speed? Any players that we know?

Darn sure not Pat Martino. That fellow is a string breaker, as is Henri Robinett (former forum member), who can also attain some frighteningly fast runs.

[AlsoRan]

It drives me crazy when I hear my volume decrease as my speed increases. When I play unplugged I notice it and when I am playing at a high tempo plugged in, I really notice it.

I immediately back off and practice the particular phrase at a slower tempo. But I do have to say that an amp and a compressor can hide a lot of that "lack of volume" or "lost volume."

[MatsP]

Can someone provide the examples of soft touch at high speed? Any players that we know?

Most "modern" jazz players, actually. Even Barney Kessel is pretty sloppy when playing fast.

Not to mention metal guitarists, who often use a feather-light attack on speedy runs. That works because of the distortion that compresses the sound, and hence compensates for the attack. Unfortunately every note will sound more or less the same, the dynamics will suffer, and it will sound like crap unplugged.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Can someone provide the examples of soft touch at high speed? Any players that we know?

Eric Johnson, though not jazz.

[MatsP]

Darn sure not Pat Martino. That fellow is a string breaker, as is Henri Robinett (former forum member), who can also attain some frighteningly fast runs.

I tend to like the sound of a hardly struck string, once again. Not always, but at the right places. Listen to John McLauglin. There's lots of energy in his fast runs, thanks to the attack. And every note *means* something.

[MatsP]

Eric Johnson, though not jazz.

Yes, good example, albeit not jazz as you mentioned.

[MatsP]

It drives me crazy when I hear my volume decrease as my speed increases. When I play unplugged I notice it and when I am playing at a high tempo plugged in, I really notice it.

I immediately back off and practice the particular phrase at a slower tempo. But I do have to say that an amp and a compressor can hide a lot of that "lack of volume" or "lost volume."

Yes, exactly, for good and bad, mostly for bad in my book.

[Hep To The Jive]

Most "modern" jazz players, actually. Even Barney Kessel is pretty sloppy when playing fast.

Not to mention metal guitarists, who often use a feather-light attack on speedy runs. That works because of the distortion that compensates for the attack. Unfortunately every note will sound more or less the same, the dynamics will suffer, and it will sound like crap unplugged.

How about Sco? Do you think his attack light or heavy? or Jim Hall?

[MatsP]

How about Sco? Do you think his attack light or heavy? or Jim Hall?

I'm not very acquainted with any of these guys, but I listened to Jim Hall a bit on YouTube. He seems to have a medium strong pick attack. He seems to be of the old school, at least. Pretty articulated, as far as I can hear.

[Hep To The Jive]

I'm not very acquainted with any of these guys, but I listened to Jim Hall a bit on YouTube. He seems to have a medium strong pick attack. He seems to be of the old school, at least. Pretty articulated, as far as I can hear.

Ok thanks! I'm personally not a big fan of players you keep mentioning, so wanted to see if the guys I like would fit the description. I never really thought about picking hard vs picking soft on fast runs, I'm more concerned with rhythmic accents and articulation, so neither consistently soft or hard I guess... But then again, I don't play fast that much at all compare to some.

[MatsP]

Ok thanks! I'm personally not a big fan of players you keep mentioning, so wanted to see if the guys I like would fit the description. I never really thought about picking hard vs picking soft on fast runs, I'm more concerned with rhythmic accents and articulation, so neither consistently soft or hard I guess... But then again, I don't play fast that much at all compare to some.

Well, I'm no wizard at fast picking either, but I'm practicing in order to become a bit more fluent. I like the sound of John McLaughlin when he blazes away in some way. But rhythmic accents and articulation are of course important, it would be boring if everything was picked hard as well

EDIT: As I said before, it's easier to loosen up from a hard attack, than going the other way when you're not "ready for it". Sometimes you want to use a hard attack on a run of notes, and when your muscles aren't trained enough...

[gggomez]

Read that Gilad Hekselman has his amp cranked and picks very lightly.

[MatsP]

Read that Gilad Hekselman has his amp cranked and picks very lightly.

Could very well be. There are all kinds of approaches

[MatsP]

One benefit of at least practicing with a rather strong pick attack, in my book, is that it will make you use the optimum hand position and movement for picking in general. It will be fruitful when you're picking with less attack as well.

[christianm77]

Sheryl Bailey says she picks very softly, and suggests her students always practice with an amp for that reason.