Jazz Guitar Technique, Picking, and Scales

**Boston Joe** · 04-19-2016, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Roscoe T. Claude

No, I don't read music
and I know that's a negative, but it's kind of like picking with my fingers, it just doesn't feel
right and I don't want to do it.

You are definitely at a disadvantage if you can't read standard notation at least a little. I'm not a great sight reader, but I can work my way through a lead sheet. That said, I think you can probably get away with not reading notation as long as you get really good at reading chord charts and figuring out melodies by ear.

Where reading really helps is in getting gigs. I've got a friend who's an amazing pianist and composer. When one of his regular guys can't make a gig, he calls subs who are great readers because he knows he's not going to have to rehearse them. Similary, being a great reader himself, he gets called for a ton of gigs, because people know he'll be able to show up and play without any fuss.

Reading is also just good exercise for your brain. Getting to the point where you can relate a dot on the page to a finger and fret without having to think it through is a great skill (and admittedly, one I'm weak on).

**Boston Joe** · 04-19-2016, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Roscoe T. Claude

If you're a writer by profession then certainly you understand that when someone has a gift for writing, as I do, they may want to write a post stylistically and I have not gotten even one other complaint about my writing on this forum.

Well, a couple of points (major digression warning):

1) I'm not complaining about your style so much as the lack of paragraph breaks. A monolithic wall of text is fatiguing to the eye, and tends to make people not want to read things.

2) Sure, I get wanting to use a particular style, but any good writer will ask himself, "Why do I want to use this style?" If you're writing a novel, you might be using style to make a sort of subliminal (or maybe not so subliminal) commentary on the material. With a forum post, the idea is to communicate, no? I'm sure Faulkner's letters were quite clearly written. Ask yourself if you're really interested in engaging here, or if you're just looking for attention.

3) I'm not trying to make you "look small" or start a squabble. Just suggesting a way that might engage more people with more to say (which is what you're after, yes?)

4) I'm hardly an academic. Been writing in the private sector for over 15 years.

**Hep To The Jive** · 04-19-2016, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Roscoe T. Claude

If you're a writer by profession then certainly you understand that when someone has a gift for writing, as I do, they may want to write a post stylistically and I have not gotten even one other complaint about my writing on this forum. I write song lyrics as well, but I generally keep my lyrical style out of posts and I see no reason why I can't use a style resembling my creative prose as a post: perhaps others enjoy it and furthermore I disagree that it is hard to read, I think you are either trying to throw your weight around or start a squabble but whatever your intention, you will Not ruin my experience on this forum, not if I can help it. I had nothing against you, I was learning a lot from our discussions but for some reason you thought it would be a good idea to make me look small. small, and you so large on your horse anal academia surrounded by greedy, power hungry hounds--not another word about writing, just jazz, and I foresee no problems in our immediate future. Roscoe

It is hard to read though...

**JSanta** · 04-19-2016, 01:10 PM

Having been on this forum for quite sometime, I am quite certain that Boston Joe was not attacking your writing acumen. It's simply that the methodology you've employed to express yourself via an online forum makes it difficult for others to read.

I've seen several of your other posts, and it's quite clear you're very eager to learn and share, and I can certainly respect that demeanor!

Disclaimer: I am not a professional writer, but am in the process of writing my doctoral dissertation.

**Roscoe T. Claude** · 04-19-2016, 03:06 PM

Boston Joe--I'm gonna be upfront with you, I won't be doing any paying gigs anytime soon, and when you take into account the damage that's done to my posterior and how often i have to push up or lie down...I mean I can sit up for hours at a time as long as I push up for 1 min. every 15 mins. Even playing in the bed I have to lie back and take breaks. Playing jazz for me is not about gigging it's about the personal satisfaction I get when I nail changes or play smoking or soulful leads. I just play for myself and my family and friends and as long as my playing is interesting and I like what I sound like that's all that matters. One day when he has the skill Roscoe T. Claude may go on YouTube to share music he has written: no technique video, no reading notation, no posturing, just a lethal dose of American jacked jawed jazz fusion---

**dingusmingus** · 04-19-2016, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Roscoe T. Claude

...I see no reason why I can't use a style resembling my creative prose as a post: perhaps others enjoy it and furthermore I disagree that it is hard to read, I think you are either trying to throw your weight around or start a squabble but whatever your intention, you will Not ruin my experience on this forum, not if I can help it.

Just one more person's opinion, but I also find many of your posts difficult to read. Long blocks of text without paragraph breaks and long sentences are generally regarded as hard to read.

Maybe you want to do it anyway--that's clearly your right. But you may get more dialogue with other forum readers and posters if they understand you quickly and easily.

Cheers, and keep swinging!

**Roscoe T. Claude** · 04-19-2016, 03:41 PM

Let me tell everybody on this forum that I'm not in a doctoral program I have only continuing education life has not gone my way for the last 15 years but I'm live as a hot wire today because I've got more guts than you do and you have trouble reading my writing because I'm a brilliant, gifted writer and you are not even smart enough to be my friend besides that if you had a fraction of the creativity that I do you would be leaving this forum just like I am now and how Dare You Gang Up On Me you den of vipers (echoes Julius Caesar "men who stab their friends in the back") my passion has always been language and as for Jazz guitar, "all is but toys, renown and grace is dead, the wine of life is drawn and the mere lees is left this vault to brag of." I'll play to amuse myself for sure but either a great deus ex machina or impossible force in the heavens is ushering me out of the dead end of the already dead...listen, just yesterday I clutched the corner of reality and time and I swore I would to art and not to life be true and that is what I leave to you wretched snakes...may you be vexed and wallow in misery the rest of your "lives."

**joe2758** · 04-19-2016, 03:49 PM

now you done it dingusmingus

destinytot · 04-19-2016, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Roscoe T. Claude

Let me tell everybody on this forum that I'm not in a doctoral program I have only continuing education life has not gone my way for the last 15 years but I'm live as a hot wire today because I've got more guts than you do and you have trouble reading my writing because I'm a brilliant, gifted writer and you are not even smart enough to be my friend besides that if you had a fraction of the creativity that I do you would be leaving this forum just like I am now and how Dare You Gang Up On Me you den of vipers (echoes Julius Caesar "men who stab their friends in the back") my passion has always been language and as for Jazz guitar, "all is but toys, renown and grace is dead, the wine of life is drawn and the mere lees is left this vault to brag of." I'll play to amuse myself for sure but either a great deus ex machina or impossible force in the heavens is ushering me out of the dead end of the already dead...listen, just yesterday I clutched the corner of reality and time and I swore I would to art and not to life be true and that is what I leave to you wretched snakes...may you be vexed and wallow in misery the rest of your "lives."

That's the spirit - channel it wisely and well.

**Boston Joe** · 04-19-2016, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by roscoe t. Claude

let me tell everybody on this forum that i'm not in a doctoral program i have only continuing education life has not gone my way for the last 15 years but i'm live as a hot wire today because i've got more guts than you do and you have trouble reading my writing because i'm a brilliant, gifted writer and you are not even smart enough to be my friend besides that if you had a fraction of the creativity that i do you would be leaving this forum just like i am now and how dare you gang up on me you den of vipers (echoes julius caesar "men who stab their friends in the back") my passion has always been language and as for jazz guitar, "all is but toys, renown and grace is dead, the wine of life is drawn and the mere lees is left this vault to brag of." i'll play to amuse myself for sure but either a great deus ex machina or impossible force in the heavens is ushering me out of the dead end of the already dead...listen, just yesterday i clutched the corner of reality and time and i swore i would to art and not to life be true and that is what i leave to you wretched snakes...may you be vexed and wallow in misery the rest of your "lives."

wtf?

**dingusmingus** · 04-19-2016, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Roscoe T. Claude

Let me tell everybody on this forum that I'm not in a doctoral program I have only continuing education life has not gone my way for the last 15 years but I'm live as a hot wire today because I've got more guts than you do and you have trouble reading my writing because I'm a brilliant, gifted writer and you are not even smart enough to be my friend besides that if you had a fraction of the creativity that I do you would be leaving this forum just like I am now and how Dare You Gang Up On Me you den of vipers (echoes Julius Caesar "men who stab their friends in the back") my passion has always been language and as for Jazz guitar, "all is but toys, renown and grace is dead, the wine of life is drawn and the mere lees is left this vault to brag of." I'll play to amuse myself for sure but either a great deus ex machina or impossible force in the heavens is ushering me out of the dead end of the already dead...listen, just yesterday I clutched the corner of reality and time and I swore I would to art and not to life be true and that is what I leave to you wretched snakes...may you be vexed and wallow in misery the rest of your "lives."

I'm sorry you feel piled on--that certainly wasn't my intention, but I probably shouldn't have put in those two cents.

Hope you stick around.

**dasein** · 04-19-2016, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Roscoe T. Claude

I feel echoes of Quentin Compson in my self when I read The Sound and The Fury

Feeling like Quentin Compson is probably not a good thing.

**Boston Joe** · 04-19-2016, 04:30 PM

Eh. I'm done. I've tried my best to give this guy some positive pointers. It's like talking to a telephone pole. Don't know why he bothers to ask questions when he evidently already knows all the answers.

**Liarspoker** · 04-19-2016, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Joe

Eh. I'm done. I've tried my best to give this guy some positive pointers. It's like talking to a telephone pole. Don't know why he bothers to ask questions when he evidently already knows all the answers.

If he would practise as much as he posts he would be a super musician.

Disclaimer: I'm writing this after 2 hours of transcribing (and a litre of beer

).

**christianm77** · 04-19-2016, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Roscoe T. Claude

Christian, so I'm not just "expressing" I want a fabulous reply like you usually give---
from what you say The Real Book does not contain the golden ticket to Willy Wonka's
Chocolate factory or the answers I want concerning jazz harmony, rhythm and improvisation--

This is surely a good thing. Wonka's Chocolate factory is completely terrifying and almost everyone ends up getting horribly mutilated.

I too find your posts a little hard to assimilate sometimes due to lack of breaks... But if I catch your drift, sounds like you are listening - I think right now any practice you do now is a good thing TBH.

I'm down on the Real Book now, I have my own way of teaching but that's not much use to anyone who isn't my student. So maybe it's a good thing to have... I used to use the Real Book, and I still consult it from time to time, if only to disagree with it. Not sure. Ideally we learn the changes off the record, but that's a tall order for a beginner at jazz.

The real education happens playing with other musicians in any case. Your aim with practice is to get to the point where you can play with other IMO.

**Hep To The Jive** · 04-19-2016, 06:08 PM

Vipers!

**mr. beaumont** · 04-19-2016, 06:08 PM

Think of the Real Book as that friend who knows a LOT about a bunch of shit but always gets the details a little muddy, and you'll be fine.

**Boston Joe** · 04-20-2016, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Think of the Real Book as that friend who knows a LOT about a bunch of shit but always gets the details a little muddy, and you'll be fine.

I use it mainly because everybody else uses it.

**JSanta** · 04-20-2016, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Think of the Real Book as that friend who knows a LOT about a bunch of shit but always gets the details a little muddy, and you'll be fine.

Same thing I was taught (granted, I am still a jazz beginner). This is where a) playing with good musicians helps, and b) knowing the melodies of those songs inside and out. Over the past two years, I've listened to more recordings of standards than anything else. Great vocalists with a backing band have given me an idea of how to maneuver within a song, both from a rhythm perspective, as well as playing through changes.

Obviously a lifetimes' worth of work ahead of me, but worth the effort.

**Roscoe T. Claude** · 04-20-2016, 12:38 PM

Yes I had an outburst because I took some criticism personally no I don't mean anyone any harm I should have been the bigger person and let it go or let it roll, but please don't judge me for having issues, I Do Not mean to cast my cares and concerns on others but s---, this forum is about jazz guitar! No Boston Joe I do take advice and I value everyone's input. My friend Ashley says she has no problem reading my writing but she is a poet and prose writer herself so I know I can't hold everyone to that standard so I will try to break it up a bit. Boston I have been told by one person to learn the relevant scales cold by another to use chord tones and I wish I could do it all but I must choose--I have taken your advice as serious as anyone else's because you appear to be an experienced member on the forum---I've got to play more and I hope everyone can read this message without eye strain or going into a catatonic state. More than I want to be liked I want to play good jazz--your turn.

**Roscoe T. Claude** · 04-20-2016, 01:03 PM

To think in two years I'll still be a beginner is refreshing; hopefully by then I'll be fleshing out my own tunes. I can do it now but I imagine I'll be a thousand x's better in two years---approximately. I've listened to advice about working on Autumn Leaves, I have been. I've backed off the scales and am trying to think in terms of jazz arpeggios (Jeff sent me a clip that demonstrated using chord tones/arpeggios in a jazz context. The jazz blues ebook is something I found on my own in the estore and it teaches chords, arpeggios and scales from a practical standpoint, or in a way that immediately transfers to a tune. I love music books but I'm having to stick with the ebooks right because I need glasses and they haven't come in yet. Also I have listened to much more jazz: I fell asleep listening to Miles' Kind Of Blue and when I woke up blue train by John Coltrane was on. Even though I'm not advanced enough to learn Coltrane by ear, Jeff recommended guitarists Django R. and Charlie Christian. Going to listen right now, how's that for taking advice?

**christianm77** · 04-20-2016, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Roscoe T. Claude

Yes I had an outburst because I took some criticism personally no I don't mean anyone any harm I should have been the bigger person and let it go or let it roll, but please don't judge me for having issues, I Do Not mean to cast my cares and concerns on others but s---, this forum is about jazz guitar! No Boston Joe I do take advice and I value everyone's input. My friend Ashley says she has no problem reading my writing but she is a poet and prose writer herself so I know I can't hold everyone to that standard so I will try to break it up a bit. Boston I have been told by one person to learn the relevant scales cold by another to use chord tones and I wish I could do it all but I must choose--I have taken your advice as serious as anyone else's because you appear to be an experienced member on the forum---I've got to play more and I hope everyone can read this message without eye strain or going into a catatonic state. More than I want to be liked I want to play good jazz--your turn.

Yeah there's not much consistency in advice. Also who's to take over someone else? What you get is a mess of information with no context. That's just the way it is... Music is an artform not a science.

That's why it's so hard to advise. I still think what you need is a teacher and I say that as a largely self-taught player.

Failing that follow your own star and see what happens.

**Roscoe T. Claude** · 04-20-2016, 04:56 PM

Thank you for your thoughtful response and thank you for understanding. I agree that it would be ideal to have a teacher and my friend Rita agrees that it would be ideal to read a book and not listen to it, but she's blind, so she listens. I agree that it would be ideal to read music but I look at my life and my jazz guitar and it's not the priority right now. Gotta go, thank you again...

**christianm77** · 04-20-2016, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Roscoe T. Claude

Thank you for your thoughtful response and thank you for understanding. I agree that it would be ideal to have a teacher and my friend Rita agrees that it would be ideal to read a book and not listen to it, but she's blind, so she listens. I agree that it would be ideal to read music but I look at my life and my jazz guitar and it's not the priority right now. Gotta go, thank you again...

Just to be clear, I don't think reading is the be all and end all at all. It's merely a useful skill. Working on you ear is probably a greater priority, and you can do that be learning lots of music by ear, which is mostly done by sheer bloody mindedness until it gets easier.