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Originally Posted by EddieLastra
I'll get through the JS booklet in the next few months. The Baker book? I think he describes it as a year-long program of study, but that's only with some serious commitment. Daunting.
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12-10-2015 07:04 AM
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12-10-2015, 07:07 AM #27destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by EddieLastra
Returning to video (of which I wish there were more on the forum), I'd find it really helpful to have the 3nps scale and arpeggio fingerings demonstrated on video - slowly and clearly - but without a demonstration of their application within a harmonic context.
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It think it a little odd that nobody has mentioned one of the biggest benefits to these 3nps scale patterns; while they can feel a little awkward initially ( I know I can rip through more traditional patterns faster, if just ripping a scale or fragment) they really lend themselves extremely well to chromatic and double chromatic approaches a la Charlie Banacos.
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Originally Posted by whiskey02
No doubt to me that the 3NPS lends well to scalar approaches. I don't know anything about Charlie Banacos, but I can say I've seen Warren Nunes play some incredibly fast and clean bebop lines with this 3NPS approach. But then on the other hand, I've seen Paco de Lucia play some incredibly fast and clean flamenco lines with the CAGED approach
It would be great if you could post up an example of the Charlie Banacos chromatic approach in use with the 3NPS structure, I'd definitely be interested in seeing some of thatLast edited by EddieLastra; 12-11-2015 at 07:01 AM.
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Originally Posted by destinytot
I can do that, I think it is within the topic of the thread. I'll post up something over the weekend, thanks for your interest
~Eddie
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Tim Miller does really interesting things with 3nps! Here's an example:
He also does some great things with 212121 arpeggios. I couldn't however find a YouTube example.Last edited by srlank; 12-12-2015 at 09:12 PM.
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Originally Posted by EddieLastra
Very interesting post and thread!
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Lots of great suggestion here, thanks everyone! Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems few people gives importance to single string horizontal studies. I found them to be quite useful. Anyway, I use a bunch of different concepts regarding the study of scales and arpeggios, most of them involve also visualizing lots of chord shapes and the various intervals in them, trying to escape from seeing things just in thirds and seconds. But when it comes to simple visualization of scales and arpeggio here's some of my work on it. Hope it can be useful. I split the fretboard in 12 groups of 5 frets. I know it's a bit redundant, but every small difference helps you invision a different place to go. At least I find it useful. But at the end of the day this is just the tip of the iceberg, and I think more horizontal shapes help move around smoother. Here's a link if you're interested! Cheers!
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completeCmaj7 - Jumpshare
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Originally Posted by AurelioTarallo
Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by EddieLastra
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As long as this excellent thread is being dusted off ...
I studied with Warren for several years. I learned his 7 patterns. And I learned a lot of triads.
But, I do not recall Warren talking about how the triads he used were embedded in the 7 patterns.
Rather, it was my impression that he based his triad approach on his chord grips.
In class, he often had a student play what he called "turnarounds", typically 2 5 3 6. And, he would use his system of type I and type II chords to juxtapose triads against chords. So, for example, he'd say "4 against 2" which in the key of C meant he'd play an F triad or maybe Fmaj7 against Dm7. He could play a different one for every chord and, afterward, tell you exactly what he'd done. I recorded the lessons and checked -- he was always right about every juxtaposition.
So, it was my impression that he played out of triads and patterns. He mentioned melodic minor, diminished and WT sounds, but, as far as I can recall, he didn't detail how he used them.
That might sound like he was harmonically limited. But, he could play a chord solo off the top of his head with incredible reharmonization. Then, when you asked him to go over it so you could learn it, he'd play a completely different one, just as good.
So, for all the stuff about patterns and triads, he also had great ears and a well-thought out approach to playing at very high speed.
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I'm learning the 7 3-nps major scale fingerings. I worked with them years ago---I think it was a Frank Gambale book on 'speed picking' that introduced me to them---but I lost interest in the sound I associated with 3 nps players and went back to what I had been doing before.
3 nps major scales are easier than I then realized. There are only 3 sets of notes:
1 _ 2 _ 4
1 2 _ 4
1 _ 3 4
(Numbers indicate finger used; _ indicates a fret skipped)
Not only that, the patterns recur in the same order:
1 _ 2 _ 4 may occur 3 times in a row. That's the most.
1 2 _ 4 always follows the 1 _ 2 _ 4 and may occur twice in a row, no more.
1 _ 3 4 always follows 1 _ 2 _ 4 and may occur twice in a row.
Then the pattern repeats.
Ordered the Steve Crowell books "84 Jazz Guitar Equations" and "Formulas for Jazz Guitar Improvisation." When I get the 3 nps fingerings down and get used to playing them in all keys, I should know the fretboard better and have should have refined my technique. We shall see...
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Originally Posted by EddieLastra
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Originally Posted by pauln
I've only ever seen horizontal referring to moving up and down the fingerboard and vertical referring to moving across the strings with little or no movement up and down the strings. Diagonal would be a combination of both.
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Originally Posted by FwLineberry
If you play each string open, you are playing vertically. If you play each note on the high E string, you are playing horizontally.
That's how I understand it.Last edited by MarkRhodes; 09-08-2019 at 10:50 AM.
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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The confusion of vertical/horizontal:
If you think of vertical (up and down) it could be up and down the neck. But as you look down at the neck, vertical is across the strings. When someone like George Benson talks about playing vertically, he's talking the latter (up and down the strings). So up and down the neck is horizontal.
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Getting one's bearings on the neck is a significant undertaking. It's understandable to stake out your territory via a 'system', whether it's 3NPS, CAGED, Leavitt, Mick Goodrick's Unitar, etc. All are valid choices, and each has the potential to get you where you need to go. I do encourage folk that have spent time working on a particular system to pick a piece of music that wasn't conceived on the guitar ( a Sonny Rollins solo, a Bach Violin sonata) and work it up to performance level. That can answer some questions on how to organize arpeggio fingerings, and how neatly a real-world piece of music does or doesn't fit into a system. Best wishes for everyone's music!
PK
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Originally Posted by bobby d
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I still use 3 notes per string for melodic and harmonic minor scales.
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Originally Posted by bobby d
In Jazz, the vertical and horizontal terms had a non-direction meaning, more about distinguishing playing the "stack of chord tones" vertically vs playing "linear melodic" horizontally through the chords, neither meaning necessarily direction of pitch, nor mechanical direction upon the instrument, nor the orientation of the instrument with respect to the floor. It was really an abstract reference to the way a sequence of pitches moves with respect to their harmonic and melodic representation as notes within the score.
Were the terms to describe this once sophisticated musical concept reduced to a pitch gradient, or a geometric orientation relative to the instrument, or the musical irrelevance of a local Earth surface gravitation vector?
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Interested to see there are some jazzers who use 3nps.
I was under the impression most jazzers prefer scales starting on 2/4 finger?
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Anyway, I'd imagine that you can basically start on whatever finger and still be within that "system". Most other fingerings are "almost three NPS" anyway?
It's usually one string that has two I think .
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Transcriber wanted
Today, 04:35 PM in Improvisation