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I'm currently working on focusing on arpeggios so that I can hit chord tones in my playing more. I learned scales as three notes per string many years ago, so that's my foundation for how I visualize the fretboard. I figure the 3NPS approach is less favorable here, but hoping to get insight for players that do use it.
I am interested in how players that use 3NPS approach are visualizing/playing arpeggios on the neck. Do people learn arpeggio positions within all 7 positions (which I guess consequentially would involve a range of up to 5 adjacent frets)? Or do you use the 5 (CAGED) positions for arpeggios, and just use 3NPS scales to 'fill in' notes between arpeggios?
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12-06-2015 01:49 AM
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I'm 3NP player. Have been since I was s kid. I map my arpeggios to the scale patterns. CAGED is a bad word around these parts.
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Two things I practice playing scales in arpts to see all the arp's within a scale, then the II-V-I in arpeggios for each scale fingering and after awhile they just become embedded in your head. Alos I try to learn scale patterns by the scale degrees each dot on the grid represents, so easy to think I want an arp from the II or III or etc and go from there.
Key is learning arpeggios shapes independent of scale fingerings they end up being one in the same, but if you know by arp shapes you can start an arp from anywhere.
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From what I've read in past discussions here, I think there may be more than one 3NPS system out there. The 3NPS approach I learned is from my teacher Warren Nunes. In it are 7 patterns that are built from each note of the major scale. Within each pattern are 4 arpeggios stacked vertically, so for example Pattern 1 in F starting from the 6th string contains Am7 (iiim7), from the 5th string is Dm7 (vim7), from the 4th string is Gm7 (iim7), and from the 3rd string is C7 (V7) arpeggios. Pattern 2 contains BbMa7 (IVma7), Em7-5 (viim7-5), Am7 (iiim7), and Dm7 (vim7) arpeggios, and so on... It might be hard to visualize this without a diagram, I'll see what I can dig up and post it for better clarity. The 3NPS patterns and arpeggio stacks are flip sides of the same coin, they work hand in hand, you use one to access the other. That's it in a very small nutshell...
Originally Posted by stevehollx
Before 3NPS, I learned the CAGED approach and still use them in certain instances, but mostly of my playing nowadays is based on the 3NPS approach. One thing I noticed with CAGED was I tended to stay locked in position and played more vertically, whereas with 3NPS I'm able to play more horizontally because of the way the patterns and arpeggios interconnect to each other
~EddieLast edited by EddieLastra; 12-06-2015 at 04:03 AM.
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I am not a 3NPS player but it seems only logical to me that arpeggios, triads and 4 note chords, played within two strings is already in your arsenal of knowledge and technique.
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I find the 3nps system the best and most complete system as it maps all of the possibilities on the fretboard.
How I visualize arpeggios depends on which one it is, where I'm coming from and going to. That being said, just start playing the chords off each note. Almost all of it is overlapping, iow you'll use the same shapes over and over.
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I studied with Warren Nunes too. That's where I got my #NPS. I don't see how there can be another. That just works out systematically perfect. 7 Patterns. I did not get the arpeggios from Warren though. He taught in a class situation. I went for a year or two straight, but there was actually very little instruction. A lot of playing, which was better in a sense.
But I designed the arpeggios to go hand in glove with the Scale Patterns. 7 arpeggios for each pattern. But once you learned all 7 Major, minor and diminished triad arpeggios, you didn't have to learn any more. They all fit in each of the scale patterns. Same for the 7ths of course.
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Originally Posted by henryrobinett
I've never studied a 7 pattern system with anyone, for awhile I came up with one on my own but that was just a phase. Can you point me to a refence page or something to check the patterns out.
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Originally Posted by docbop
There is thread here called 5 vs 7 positions, it has some great info. Fwiw there are different 7 position systems. I prefer shifting on the b string, but they all accomplish the same thing. One giant grid.
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Originally Posted by docbop
Here's a diagram of the 7 pattern 3NPS system I learned from Warren Nunes.
This is in the key of F
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Originally Posted by EddieLastra
Here's a diagram of the 7 pattern 3NPS system I learned from Warren Nunes.
This is in the key of F
Cool thanks!
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Beat me to it. But anyway, here it is from me. The same really. The 7 Major Scale Patterns | Henry Robinett Guitar Lessons
I just want to note there is a mistake on Pattern III. The first string shows fingering 1-3-4. It should be 1-2-4!Last edited by henryrobinett; 03-30-2017 at 10:36 AM.
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Thanks Henry I remove the patterns so the website doesn't start looking like Buddy Guys guitar closet. Originally Posted by henryrobinett
I can see the advantage of some of those compare to the others that just go straight across only give you a preplaned shift point for combining patterns. Versus my I know the neighborhood I'll get there method.
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As I mentioned in post #4, here is the arpeggio stack that is embedded in pattern #1
Highlighted in red
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Originally Posted by EddieLastra
As I mentioned in post #4, here is the arpeggio stack that is embedded in pattern #1
Highlighted in red
There are arpeggios off of each note in each position.
Great excercise
1357 2461 3572 etc
1357 8642 3572 etc
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Put together a quick and simple on one way to use the arpeggio stack and notes of F pattern 1 to outline a Gm7-C7-Fma7 change.
excuse the video and audio as it's just my smartphone camera
~Eddie
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I don't strictly use a 3 notes per string method, but it is one method I've employed for decades. There are advantages to playing arps going up the neck, like covering more territory and playing more notes per string. The disadvantage is possibly getting lost while changing positions lol.
I like to look at each octave as a starting point. i.e.
G, 6th string, 3rd fret
G 4th string, 5th fret
G, 2nd string, 8th fret.
Playing the basic 3 chord tones at each position play one note on the first string and two notes on the next. Then jump to the next octave and repeat.
4 note arps can be done with two notes per string which is easier to manage because the fingers naturally climb of the neck. Descending is a little more difficult, especially with the 3 note arps.
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I think of the arpeggios as this. I see them throughout the scale patterns. In this Major Triad example they reach all the way inside each scale pattern so you know instantly what note is what. I found it less useful, for me, to look at them as just root, 3, 5 and up.
This is the key of C. The first, for example, is 1 chord (tonic) #4 scale pattern.
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Playing triads/arpeggios on 2 strings is what Warren would refer to as 'splitting the triad' and yes it definitely opens the way for moving horizontally on the neck to access the neighboring patterns. What I've come to understand are that triads are the gateway to accessing good notes through the vertical, horizontal, and diagonal planes on the neck. The 4th note that turns the triad into an arpeggio is a connecting point to another note grouping, be it another triad/arpeggio or scale tones Originally Posted by bobby d
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I like the Johnny Smith booklet, which presents arpeggios and scales across three octaves (shifting across multiple positions). It doesn't say anything about positions but I think it's aligned with CAGED. I'm a keyboardist first and only a novice guitarist, learned my scales using CAGED, and Johnny Smith isn't giving me any problems. If he's using 7 positions I'm just oblivious.
It does require that you can read standard notation though.
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Originally Posted by BigDee62
Was that the book where he wrote out the notation in grand staff, the upper register notes are in the treble clef staff and the lower register notes are in the bass clef? Talk about sight reading skills, one staff is already a major reading challenge for me lol! Aside from that I recall it was quite a thorough bookLast edited by EddieLastra; 12-10-2015 at 02:17 AM.
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Johnny Smith, Aids to Technique for Guitar, think it was $10 on djangobooks.com
All treble clef, no bass clef. Only 26 pages but very dense, covers all major and minor scales and arpeggios plus a bunch of other exercises (kinda similar to Hanon exercises for piano).
I'm thinking I should have pretty decent mastery of the fretboard by the time I get through it.
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Originally Posted by BigDee62
Thanks for sharing that info on Johnny Smith's book. I checked and it is available in eBook form from djangobooks.com. I did some quick research on that book and he published it way back in 1961.
http://www.amazon.com/Johnny-Techniq.../dp/B007I6X62I
I saw original copy at a book collector website listed for $150.
The book I was talking about is this one that was published in 1980:
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Johnn...22392/ref=oosr
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Did you read the reviews? Apparently not written by Johnny Smith. Originally Posted by EddieLastra
The one on djangobooks.com is one thing JS admits to having written himself. It's concise but deep, and an excellent use of $10 - particularly if you're working to master arpeggios.
It may be several decades old, but most of the stuff I studied on piano was at least a *century* old. Perspective.
Learned about it on this forum, what an excellent resource.Last edited by BigDee62; 12-10-2015 at 06:37 AM.
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Originally Posted by BigDee62
Yes, I did read that, very odd and surprising that he actually let his name be used in the publication. I downloaded the ebook and looks to be some good useful stuff in there. The Mickey Baker jazz guitar book that many here still study was published back in the late 50's as well, something to say for old methods
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