How Do I Develop Speed on the Guitar?

[princeplanet]

I think I'd rather watch someone type very quickly....

[ColinO]

To be fair in the comparison of "rock" to Jazz, i often do see jazz guitarists scoff at rock guitarists for their simple phrasing and "box playing". However their are other branches of rock that i believe jazz guitarists should appreciate...one forgets to look at bands such as Between the Buried and Me, Animals as Leaders, Angel Vivaldi's work, Protest The Hero, and hell even some Dream Theater or Jeff Loomis, etc...what im saying is that some "rock" (i say this because its more progressive metal) can be as complicated and technical as Jazz. Now dont get me wrong it's still "showy" but none the less open, and difficult. I implore some of you to go check some of this music out. you may not appreciate some of the vocals, but the instrument work is PHENOMENAL.

-William

I don't get this desire of people to try and convince jazz guys that rock players are just as competant. Who cares? The effort should be in becoming the best you can be at whatever form of music you most like playing.

I have heard most of the bands you mention. The guys in those bands have chops and are certainly good players. They tunes are sometimes rhythmically complicated in their own way. And the riffs are not easy to and neither are the solos.

However, in terms of harmonic complexity, in chords and improvisation, jazz is on a different planet. The more you learn about jazz music the more you will realize that.

If you don't believe me, ask any of the best metal/rock players and they'll tell you the same thing.

That doesn't mean that jazz is objectively better or that jazz players are necessarily better guitar players. The dude that gets off spending 8 hours a day developing those skills that it takes to become a shredding virtuoso can do stuff that a jazz virtuoso can't and vice versa. But to suggest that metal or rock is just as complex as jazz is simply wrong.

[JustAGuy]

I don't get this desire of people to try and convince jazz guys that rock players are just as competant. Who cares? The effort should be in becoming the best you can be at whatever form of music you most like playing.

I have heard most of the bands you mention. The guys in those bands have chops and are certainly good players. They tunes are sometimes rhythmically complicated in their own way. And the riffs are not easy to and neither are the solos.

However, in terms of harmonic complexity, in chords and improvisation, jazz is on a different planet. The more you learn about jazz music the more you will realize that.

If you don't believe me, ask any of the best metal/rock players and they'll tell you the same thing.

That doesn't mean that jazz is objectively better or that jazz players are necessarily better guitar players. The dude that gets off spending 8 hours a day developing those skills that it takes to become a shredding virtuoso can do stuff that a jazz virtuoso can't and vice versa. But to suggest that metal or rock is just as complex as jazz is simply wrong.

I dont understand having to compare either. And the message i was trying to send wasnt directed to open minded players like yourself who just want everyone to get better. I would have made the opposing argument on a metal forum if players there started to talk down jazz. I believe in profficiency in every style simply to make yourself a better player. However even though i wasnt directing my message toward you, i urge you to researchb Tosin Abasi and listen to the song CAFO by Animals As Leaders and their other works as well, not only to support my standpoint but to show you some great guitar work and expand your views on the matter. Dont take this as a retort; i have had the same argument with metal guitarists who think jazz is just a bunch of random notes over a progression of stupid chords...i love music, not genres.

[ColinO]

You had to raise Tosin. That guy is a monster player no doubt. My kid is a real shredder and plays that guy, Misah Mansoor and Guthrie Govan all the time. Awesome players. I saw an interview with Tosin once - he said when he was trying to develop his harmonic understanding he started learning jazz standards because jazz is the most complicated form harmonically and nothing else comes close.

Tosin is like a metal player who has a lot of harmonic knowledge and a lot of skill. And he uses them both. But harmonically they are not as complicated as jazz tends to be.

If you like Tosin then you would probably enjoy this(it gets really cool around 27 minutes.

And when you listen to these guys, you tend to hear them playing for a long time over a single chord vamp whereas in jazz, chords and tonal centers change more frequently which is part of the added harmonic complexity.

[ColinO]

Justaguy.

You might also want to check out T.R.A.M. which is Tosin's jazz fusion band.

[frajazzamico]

Speed comes from accuracy...my approach is to practice licks at increasing metronome speeds...

[dogwart]

Yngwie Malmstein also.

[joelr]

I started as a rock player and got pretty good. Mark Varney used one of my tracks on his now defunct "Guitar On The Edge" cds on Legato records. Then I started playing jazz as well and was completely blown away at how hard it is to be a top level player.

For pure technique rock can be harder as I've never had so much trouble incorporating a guitar players style into my own as with Shawn Lane's stuff but the mental aspect of jazz is so much harder. Making changes, keeping time, hearing changes, all that stuff. Plus the sheer number of things to practice and make musical.

[3625]

Hey Joel, I just checked out some of your playing - you've got incredible chops! It's great you're on the forum, cheers

[joelr]

Thanks

[mtown]

I used the Charlie Parker "Omni Book". Learning the solos and slowly working them up to the tempo of the recording. I didn't set out to play faster but learning Parker's solos at his tempo was a byproduct to that end.

[princeplanet]

I used the Charlie Parker "Omni Book". Learning the solos and slowly working them up to the tempo of the recording. I didn't set out to play faster but learning Parker's solos at his tempo was a byproduct to that end.

You deserve both a welcome, and then a congratulations! Playing Omnibook solos on guitar is the best education in Jazz, even for us guitarists.