Right-Hand Development for Jazz Guitar

**MatsP** · 08-30-2015, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

It is a good book. Lots of great (and musical) exercises.

Yes. And his economical picking is something I've already started to adopt, even if it sometimes feels very awkward for a long-time "strict alternate picker". I actually took a peek at Frank Gambale's books a bit in the past, but he has a much more rigid (and limiting) approach when it comes to economy picking or whatever you may call it. Jimmy isn't afraid to "break the rules" now and then, and to me, it's absolutely necessary in order to avoid having to rearrange whole figures.

**MatsP** · 08-31-2015, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Irez87

I've been working on getting the hinge movement down to a minimum in my picking and using the forearm to rotate for alternate and "sweep" picking (another detested term). I keep my wrist as loose as possible, so it may appear as if my rotation is coming from my wrist (it's not).

For any type of picking, I've found that a huge issue for many people (including ME) is that they use too much of the pick and not enough point. Also, they pick too far with each movement of the pick with faster tempos. The pick should have enough movement to just clear the girth of the string and then immediately come back up (not rest stroke for alternate picking, think free stroke?)

In terms of Tai Chi, or meditation of some sort, I agree it is helpful, especially in locating unwanted tension and ridding it from the body. I need to start doing something of that sort.

Michael Angelo Batio (who actually started playing jazz) once said that the movements should be as small when you play slow as when you play fast. At least that's a good rule when practicing speedy figures in a slower tempo.

destinytot · 08-31-2015, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by MatsP

The only problem with "real" rest strokes is that it's hard to, say, pick a downstroke on the second string, then an upstroke on the third with that kind of angle of the hand. You will need to straighten it up before going to the third string, if you get what I mean.

Yeah. In fact, that's partly why I've spent all summer looking into left-hand fingering. I'm finding that it helps to play strictly an even number of notes per string on the way up - whereas 'anything goes' on the way down.

**MatsP** · 08-31-2015, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

Yeah. In fact, that's partly why I've spent all summer looking into left-hand fingering. I'm finding that it helps to play strictly an even number of notes per string on the way up - whereas 'anything goes' on the way down.

Yep... I get you.

**MatsP** · 09-03-2015, 07:19 AM

I notice that with economy picking, when you "fall down" (or "fall up" on upstrokes if you will) on the destination string, it's far too easy to, after hitting the (destination) string, deflect too far from it with the pick, resulting in an unnecessary long path for the pick to travel in order to hit the destination string once more, at least for me. Economy of motion certainly holds true when it comes to economy picking as well.

**MatsP** · 09-03-2015, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by fep

I had trouble with a "flat" pick technique in that I couldn't get past 16th notes at 120bpm. I have recently changed to a Benson grip (which Reg who posts on this site also uses). I also prefer the tone of an angled pick.

Benson, Di Meola, Mclaughlin, Paul Gilbert are few that use an angled pick attack. Look at players on youtube that play fast and relaxed with good tone, you'll find many of them use an angled pick attack. I think that unknown author is off base writing that an angled pick attack is a bad approach.

There are a number of reasons why I think angled is better, but I'll defer to the virtuoso Tuck Andress who has written a very comprehensive analysis of picking technique:

Tuck & Patti: Pick & Fingerstyle Techniques

Being able to angle the pick and still maintain a good tone depends on the shape of the pick, in my book. And it's not necessary to have an extreme angle. I've talked to Andreas Öberg, one of the fastest straight alternate pickers around, and he only angles his pick a few degrees at most.

**MatsP** · 09-03-2015, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by MatsP

Being able to angle the pick and still maintain a good tone depends on the shape of the pick, in my book. And it's not necessary to have an extreme angle. I've talked to Andreas Öberg, one of the fastest straight alternate pickers around, and he only angles his pick a few degrees at most.

I should add that he has a very loose grip on the pick, so that it is free to "wiggle" a bit by itself.

**znerken** · 10-06-2018, 08:42 AM

Do you still recommend this book?

I currently do Modern Method Volume 1, but I am considering perhaps doing this book 15-30 minutes every day as well. Thoughts?

**dwparker** · 10-14-2018, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by znerken

Do you still recommend this book?

I currently do Modern Method Volume 1, but I am considering perhaps doing this book 15-30 minutes every day as well. Thoughts?

The method in Modern Method is rest strokes. Nothing wrong with learning something else, but if you are only in book 1, I can see an argument for getting this method down pat first before moving on and beginning another technique.

**christianm77** · 10-14-2018, 11:00 AM

The main reason why I personally pick into the string rather than flat across is tone.

No classical player would use fingernails flat on.

**christianm77** · 10-14-2018, 11:11 AM

Ah sorry that post might have been relevant in 2011 lol

**coolvinny** · 10-15-2018, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by MatsP

Being able to angle the pick and still maintain a good tone depends on the shape of the pick, in my book. And it's not necessary to have an extreme angle. I've talked to Andreas Öberg, one of the fastest straight alternate pickers around, and he only angles his pick a few degrees at most.

This warms my heart to hear, as I too only angle my pick a few degrees.

**christianm77** · 10-15-2018, 02:35 PM

Yeah, I don't think pick angle has a huge bearing on overall speed, but more on tone. Obv the pick affects things as well.

**christianm77** · 10-15-2018, 02:36 PM

Is Oberg an alternate picker for the bop stuff? I know he does a flatter wrist variant of rest stroke picking when he plays GJ, but can't remember if he changes it when he's on the archtop, I think he said he does.

**MarkRhodes** · 10-20-2018, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by MatsP

Herb Ellis did angle his pick. He even mentioned it in an instructional video, don't remember the title of it. Furthermore, both he and Barney Kessel had a very strong attack.

Yes, Herb did.
Frankly, I've never been able to play with a pick flat against the strings for very long. (If I'm doing an exercise and will myself to do it that way, I can. For a few measures. Then it reverts to some angle or other.)

Herb also said he didn't pick every note. That's a big difference between him Pat Martino, who picks a higher percentage of his notes than Herb did. (Or Joe Pass, for that matter. They both slurred a lot.) And so did Wes, of course.

I like the slur-players of that era but not so much the legato players of the present day, who are faster and more fluid but not, for my money, nearly so appealing. I don't care for Martino as much as I do Herb Ellis and Barney Kessel. It's a matter of taste, I know, I know. Not saying anyone is better than anyone else. It may be that I mainly like the overall feel of '50s jazz (and those who kept it up afterward) than jazz since the '70s. (It's funny to me how bands from the '70s that I liked, such as Return To Forever, sound more dated to me than the Miles bands of the '50s.)