The movable index barre (a question)

[Mark Kleinhaut]

I dont know when or why I started, but playing the way I do developed over five and a half decades of playing: I can see plainly on my videos (as others have pointed out) that I mostly keep my index finger flattened and perfectly perpendicular to the neck so it’s alway in position to do a barre across at least a few strings, even when playing a single line. This left hand form has facilitated my solo guitar (self comping) approach. I don't notice this so much watching other players and I’m wondering if anyone here is aware of others who do it like me?

[AllanAllen]

Not exactly the same, but the early jazz chord solo guys, ie. Jonathan Stout or Yuji Kamihigashi, do something similar.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

Not exactly the same, but the early jazz chord solo guys, ie. Jonathan Stout or Yuji Kamihigashi, do something similar.

I see, yes similar but their fingers also revert to the angled fingers whenever they release a barre- I think it’s because their right thigh players.

[pamosmusic]

I do quite a lot of this too. It’s kind of more of a classical fingering position for the same reason. I definitely do sort of bounce between that in the upper and middle frets and a more pronated violin fingers sort of position in the lower positions.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

I do quite a lot of this too. It’s kind of more of a classical fingering position for the same reason. I definitely do sort of bounce between that in the upper and middle frets and a more pronated violin fingers sort of position in the lower positions.

Thanks. I did suspect it had some classical origins though I’ve never studied as such. My childhood friend and band mate back then was very schooled in classical guitar so lots of how he did things rubbed off. Do you have any videos of you?

[pamosmusic]

Not of solo playing.

But I immediately thought of David Russell.

[John A.]

I'd say that in general players who play a lot in positions (as opposed to more up and down the neck) do this, but maybe not as as consistently as you do (and more in their comping and chord soloing than single line playing). Jim Hall, Jimmy Bruno, and Joe Pass came to mind as I typed this, but looking at videos on youtube perhaps less than I had in mind. In contrast, Wes and George Benson seem not to do at all.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

Not of solo playing.

But I immediately thought of David Russell.

https://youtu.be/ANcC5sCCVEc?
si=5jMLAVSaw7zMnL-V

Wowza- amazing!

[Mick-7]

I dont know when or why I started, but playing the way I do developed over five and a half decades of playing: I can see plainly on my videos (as others have pointed out) that I mostly keep my index finger flattened and perfectly perpendicular to the neck so it’s alway in position to do a barre across at least a few strings, even when playing a single line. This left hand form has facilitated my solo guitar (self comping) approach. I don't notice this so much watching other players and I’m wondering if anyone here is aware of others who do it like me?

How could you not when you hold your guitar up like that? Have you always held it like that?

[pamosmusic]

How could you not when you hold your guitar up like that? Have you always held it like that?

Another very classical thing. I wear my guitar super high. Want the headstock about eye level.

[Mick-7]

Another very classical thing. I wear my guitar super high. Want the headstock about eye level.

The Telecaster? Really? Guess I never noticed....

[pamosmusic]

The Telecaster? Really? Guess I never noticed....

Most of the time I'm sitting in videos, I guess.

But yeah. I wear that thing like a bowtie.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

Most of the time I'm sitting in videos, I guess.

But yeah. I wear that thing like a bowtie.

getting high is why we play

[dasein]

Sometimes. It's a deliberate decision. I have two hand general hand positions that I tend switch between depending on what I'm playing:

- a "pronated" position where my fingers are angled more towards the bridge. Tends to favor first 3 fingers.
- a "supinated" position. The fingers look like they are more or less parallel to the frets, but they feel like they're leaning more towards the bridge. This means the pinky is closer to the other three fingers in terms of how close they are to the fretboard

Another way of looking at it: with the pronated version, the index finger side of the palm is closer to the neck than the pinky side. With the supinated version, it's the opposite: the pinky side of the palm is closer to the neck than the index.

In the supinated version, my index finger is much flatter. I'd hesitate to call it a true barre, since it's not perfectly flat across the strings, but I can see how it would look that way to observers.

[Rob MacKillop]

As long as your middle finger is not sticking up, you'll be fine

[wolflen]

Joe Diorio..Ted Greene..John Stowell..Joe Pass..All have the neck pointed at the sky..there must be something up there..

[Mark Kleinhaut]

Joe Diorio..Ted Greene..John Stowell..Joe Pass..All have the neck pointed at the sky..there must be something up there..

yes, but not the barre thing. I mean, the angle makes it possible but that’s not how those guys play.

[ccroft]

Hi Mark. I once called it a moveable capo I've been trying to figure out how you get such nice voicings built around that.

I've noticed something else interesting about your left fingers. The first joint is way more flexible than mine. I've seen some vids where it almost seems 'double-jointed' in the way it bends back. Sometimes your front pad seems to barre 2 strings with the first knuckle pretty high off the fret board.

Maybe it's your middle finger allowing index to fret adjacent string underneath. Or something... Now I'm not sure which finger, but it stood out to me as unusual.

Whatever you're doing and why you're doing it, it works great for you! It's part of your sound.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

Hi Mark. I once called it a moveable capo I've been trying to figure out how you get such nice voicings built around that.

I've noticed something else interesting about your left fingers. The first joint is way more flexible than mine. I've seen some vids where it almost seems 'double-jointed' in the way it bends back. Sometimes your front pad seems to barre 2 strings with the first knuckle pretty high off the fret board.

Maybe it's your middle finger allowing index to fret adjacent string underneath. Or something... Now I'm not sure which finger, but it stood out to me as unusual.

Whatever you're doing and why you're doing it, it works great for you! It's part of your sound.

Thanks for your observations. It’s actually fascinating how other can see more clearly than I see myself. I’m not truly self tough as I’ve had some significant mentors and coaching along the way, but nobody ever said exactly here’s how fingerings should work to play a specific passage. I had to figure that out, plus I’ve always been free to play in any manner that felt comfortable to get the job done. And by job, that was never all that prescriptive either. So style is a result of ear, but also physical capability and because my nature is to be lazy - the mother of efficiency. The video I posted yesterday in “the songs” has this all very clear and present.

[lammie200]

I dont know when or why I started, but playing the way I do developed over five and a half decades of playing: I can see plainly on my videos (as others have pointed out) that I mostly keep my index finger flattened and perfectly perpendicular to the neck so it’s alway in position to do a barre across at least a few strings, even when playing a single line. This left hand form has facilitated my solo guitar (self comping) approach. I don't notice this so much watching other players and I’m wondering if anyone here is aware of others who do it like me?

I do something similar. It kind of happened unconsciously for me a long time ago. But I also do a lot of other chord shapes where I can't do it. And single lines and double stops I don't always do it. But I do it for a lot of 4 and 5 note chord shapes and even triads. My right hand picking just has gotten used to know which strings to pluck and which to avoid. A big advantage is sliding around because if a string won't be plucked for one shape it might get plucked when I slide to another shape because my index finger is already there to fret the note. It is kind of an economical approach, but like I said, I never thought of doing it. It just happened.

[Gilpy]

I’m certainly not classically trained. In fact, I started out using the barre because I was a rock player who didn’t know many chord forms.
Now, when I play solo guitar that index finger is always there, ready to give me the bass note that I crave. I find that I have developed a lot of dexterity with the other fingers, like a classical player.