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funny suddenly to have a burning question i want to ask other jazzy guitarists and to open up the site (for the first time in ages) to find a post
'i've had it with picks' etc. etc.
anyway here it is!
of those of us who 'benson' or 'wilson' pick (neither of these names gives the technique its due - both JH and PB sort of do it) - do you use picks with mucho give or with little to no give?
after decades of pick uncertainty i've been using the same (stiff) picks for ages and ages now (and i love them). but i was party to the mega-thread-of-threads and I'm hip to flex. i got no flex. maybe i'm messing myself up.
all best.
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01-19-2026 02:43 PM
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Fender Medium. That’s what Benson was using for years before Ibanez made his signature picks. Rodney Jones taught me that right hand technique and he used fender mediums. Because of the angle the pick is slicing over the string it doesn’t really feel like it’s bending.
Your experience, however, may vary from mine. There’s no one right way with this stuff so buy a few different picks and experiment. After 30 years of playing with this right hand style I’ve fiddled with it countless times to find what feels most comfortable for me.
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similar experience - and i've been settled for years now with my current inflexible little pick
i converted to upside down picking just before the jumbo-thread started on here
i've been trying my fender mediums and my ibanez benson picks - and the loss of bass (in high notes too) is too much for me
the change in sound between a dunlop ultex jazz iii and the fender medium type pick is very dramatic - i love the way the dunlop pick pulls the sound out of the box - it's addictive.
must have been great to get help from rodney jones on this!
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Even a thin pick will work if you grip it near its tip, but it will sound brighter than a heavier pick - how you hold a pick can make a big difference. You can change your tone dramatically just by switching picks.
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i was in a dream house west of the moon recently
very nice
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I don't Benson pick... but I've become a believer in flex!
I used to use 2mm Dunlop Delrin (acetal homopolymer). Then 1mm unknown brand/material, hard and stiff. Then Dunlop Delrin .71mm (slightly bendy).
Now for a good while, .73mm Dunlop Nylon standard (old style, not Max-Grip!). Even more bendy, but I play so gently now it doesn't noticeably bend. Transfer of energy is very focused and fast so no "loading lag" in the string. Splendid speed, articulation, phrasing, and feel. Chord control is delightful.
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I guess I have kind of a Benson grip
I use 4mm stone jazz iii type picks lol. Been using the same pick (singular) for over a year and it hasn't noticably changed shape which is the most amazing part
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this post has done wonders! just this wee tip about gripping the pick close to its tip has really given me a boost. dig the fatter sound and also it all feels more controlled and precise. Thanks!
Originally Posted by Mick-7
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Thank you. This discovery came about because: (1) I'd collected a pile of thin picks I thought would not work for me, and (2) They were large - small teardrop picks have little space between their front and rear ends so there's really only one way to grip them. Originally Posted by Groyniad
Also, it's remarkable how much you can change your tone just by changing your pick, no need to switch pickups (if your guitar has more than one) or adjust the tone settings on your amp.
Hardly amazing, they're like a Jethro Tull song - thick as a brick. Originally Posted by BreckerFan
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I have tried stone picks and wanted to like them but the click on every note picked is not for me.It also seemed to me strings didn't last as long using a stone pick. Originally Posted by BreckerFan
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The click really depends on the bevel of the pick. I tried a bunch of different stone ones and a lot didnt sound good. But I found these and haven't looked back The Stone Guitar Picks Store
Haven't had any issues with strings personally.
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Not related directly to Benson technique but choking up so just the tip of a pick is showing can feel more precise and controlled for single note lines, it is, for me, not good at all for comping and strumming multiple strings at a time. You might want to work out a way to roll out a bit more pick material for when you need/want more.
Originally Posted by Groyniad
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Slight Digression: I've been playing guitar for ~54 years, and playing/listening to/studying jazz and George Benson for 50 of those years ...and until today I had never heard of the term or concept "Benson picking" Originally Posted by Groyniad
...also, I have no idea who "Wilson" is referring to!
What actual aspect of George Benson's picking technique is this term referring to?
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fwiw I use Medium picks. Given a choice, I prefer thicker/stiffer to thinner/flexy-er.
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[QUOTE=Bob_Ross;1446679]
What actual aspect of George Benson's picking technique is this term referring to?
[/QUOTE
What it looks like... I have never done it myself
Holding one's hand below the strings, kind of palm up
Slanting the pick's point tip upwards rather than down
Tilting the pick a lot, in the reverse direction of normal
People who do it should confirm and elaborate.
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Tuck Andress had a long treatise on his old website about George Benson's picking technique, which has been reproduced here:
Tuck Andress Picking Article from 2+ decades ago re: pick mechanics | The Gear Page
Here's the section on Benson picking....
1.1.8 George Benson's picking style: When I finally got to see George Benson play live in the mid-70s, I was advanced enough myself to instantly realize that he had solved the picking problem. He had somehow resolved the inherent conflict between accuracy and feel, regardless of speed. Unlike every other player I had seen (or have seen since), his technique fully supported him. I observed and dissected his technique very carefully, then applied it to normal humans:
For a normal human, the pick is held between the tip of the thumb and the flat, or pad, of the index finger; the middle finger can also rest next to the index finger. The first joint of the thumb must be locked in fully open position, and the first and second joints of the index finger must be arched and locked. (George's thumb bends back so much at his first joint that he can grip between the flat of his thumb and the flat of his index finger, but this is rare. The exact point where the pick makes contact in the range between the tip and the pad of the thumb varies from hand to hand.) This causes the pick to be rotated about 90 degrees counterclockwise from the standard style, viewing the guitar as described above. Depending on the stance (see below), the other fingers can be splayed out over the fingerboard or curled up toward the palm.
Advantages:
(1) The pick moves in its own plane rather than perpendicularly to its own plane. This results in a solid, trumpet-like attack yet a more gentle impact of pick against string. It sounds better and the pick does not get caught on the string as much.
(2) It is not necessary to give up the strumming feel in order to accomplish this, nor is there any gear change as in circle picking.
(3) It is possible to apply a very firm pressure on the pick with essentially zero tension. By locking the pick and the thumb and finger holding it, all the motion of the pick is generated from the arm and wrist, resulting in better feel.
(4) Comfortably locking the pick up for the first time allows one to explore the shoulder, elbow and wrist as sources of motion. By isolating and exploring them in that order (from grossest to most subtle), feel and accuracy both improve dramatically. The body becomes less tense as the physical blockages between head and pick get broken down. The player looks more relaxed and communicates greater openness and confidence.
Disadvantages:
(1) It can take some relearning. During the transition period your original technique will fall apart. There is no gentle transition. The middle ground, where the thumb joint begins to arch or the first joint of the first finger begins to straighten out, is terrible, so it must be avoided through continual vigilance.
(2) The way in which the collision of the pick and the string tends to dislodge the pick is different, and disconcerting; the force of the string opposing the pick is in the same plane as the pick, so it tends to make the pick rotate around the axis of grasping between thumb and index finger.
The solution for both of these problems is to relentlessly lock up the pick using exaggerated pressure from the beginning, concentrating on three principles:
(A) Keep the thumb joint locked.
(B) Keep the first joint of the index finger arched enough that the tip pushes against the pick, rather than just touching it. (The thumb can move closer to or farther away from the point of the pick.) Avoid the tendency to relax this joint and find yourself gripping between the thumb and a point near the first joint, because you will lose control of the pick. The test is to try to dislodge the pick with the other hand and see how much give there is. There should be almost none.
(C) Isolate the tension to just the thumb and index finger. Relax the rest of the hand, wrist, arm and body. Later relaxing the grip slightly will be easy and will decrease tension without losing control of the pick.
(3) It is more difficult to pluck with other fingers at the same time or to play artificial harmonics.
(4) The kind of tone associated with a loosely held pick is impossible to achieve (to me this is an advantage), although the tightness of the grip is still a variable that you can profitably explore after you get good at locking it up.
1.1.9 Notes about the Benson approach
(1) I have taught it to hundreds of guitarists. For virtually everybody it ends up being an improvement, in most cases a drastic one. For some, the results are immediate. For others (me) it can take quite a bit of time. Careful attention to the fundamentals speeds up the process.
(2) There is a parallel to circle picking in the Benson approach, at least when the wrist is rolled down into the oscillation position I will describe below. It is less specific, because there are many ways the finger and thumb can move without the wrist moving as opposed to just one with circle picking. All three finger joints as well as both thumb joints plus the place where the thumb joins the wrist can move in any combination, allowing considerable range of motion with no wrist motion. However this should be viewed as an advanced subtlety which involves unlocking the vise grip on the pick. Don't work on it until locking up the pick has become automatic and the basic stroke is comfortable and reliable.
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For reference a few guitarists to look at that use what is now called the Benson technique.
I can’t say if they picked up the technique from watching Benson. I think Cecil said he did not but it just came naturally to him. I know Rodney did. I learned it from him. There are many others but this is off the top of my head.
Rodney Jones
Dan Wilson
Cecil Alexander
Isaiah Sharkey
Perry Hughes
Sheryl Bailey
Peter Farrell
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Dan Wilson presumably. Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
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Add Miles Okazaki to that list. Also a Rodney Jones student IIRC Originally Posted by setemupjoe
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Funny that Tuck would make such an intense study of plectrum technique only to give it up and go to fingerstyle playing, but apparently he's like that, goes all in on whatever he studies. Originally Posted by Mick-7
This part of his treatise is amusing and probably in the running for the longest run on sentence ever written
"Here are some examples of realities I have personally encountered which were not sufficiently addressed by this style of preparation:
Borrowed guitar, different string spacing, bridge or nut sliding during string bending or vibrato, wrong strap length or strap breaking during solo, unwound guitar string used as backup strap gradually cutting through shirt and shoulder, sleeve snagging on bridge suddenly locking up hand, wrong pick, dropped pick, broken pick, no pick, pick stuck between strings, finger caught between strings, wrong strings, dead strings, sticky strings, blood on strings, broken strings, no extra strings, jar of honey spilled all over strings, vintage L-5's gig bag shoulder strap breaking immediately before album release concert for 5,000 people causing guitar to fall on concrete and creating crack from tailpiece to neck which gradually splits apart during performance with action getting higher and higher, amp too far away, amp too close, amp broken so play through bass amp or P.A., tone all wrong, overdrive bypass switch broken, cymbal in ear, band too loud, audience too loud, band downstairs too loud, bad monitors, no monitors, in-ear monitors broken so Patti is heard acoustically but Tuck is heard only through house PA 50 yards away resulting in Tuck being unavoidably out of sync with Patti by 1/6 second for whole show, guitar buzz, RF from nearby transmitter louder than the music itself, brownouts making organ pitch fluctuate randomly over an octave range, power outage, equipment plugged into 230 volts immediately before show, earthquake during show in high-rise, outdoor desert performance at 131 degrees with sand-blasting winds, sub-freezing outdoor mountaintop performance with snow storms and 40 mph winds, high altitude dizziness, no sleep, no food, too much food, wrong food, food poisoning, fever, locked bathrooms, way too many liquids before long show, nagging suspicion that zipper is down, contact lens falling out during moment of peak concentration, compromised hand position due to repeatedly sliding full width of stage while trying to keep playing but not collide with Patti on yacht in rough Finnish Gulf of Bothnia, charts blown away by wind, charts on thermal fax paper, charts in wrong key, charts without bar lines, charts with bar lines all displaced by two beats, charts in bass clef or C clef, chord charts with do/re/mi instead of C/D/E and everything else in Portuguese, realization that Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie, Joe Pass, George Benson, Chaka Khan, Bobby McFerrin or Steve Gadd just walked in, drunks falling on stage, drunks disrobing on stage, drunks grabbing instruments or band members, band members falling asleep during song, pigs frolicking in sawdust-covered frat house knocking over band equipment, thinly veiled animosity between bride's and groom's families erupting into violence during heartfelt version of My Romance, nightly juggling of playing and operating the lighting console/footswitches and talking to audience members and trying to reign in tempos and egos of various fellow top-40 band members, arrival at duo gig with unbelievably loud, aggressive fuzz-wah hard rock bass player to discover that assignment is to back up elderly white-haired and white-suited gentleman singing unfamiliar country songs to unforgiving patrons, crowded upscale happy hour dance floor unraveling into pandemonium as normal-looking customers all collapse to the floor and writhe around on each other while astonished saxophone-playing duo partner walks out leaving helpless solo guitarist playing The Hustle for 25 minutes, funk bass player imprisoned in lounge band insisting on popping strings throughout sensitive ballads, accidental imprisonment of Patti in wine cellar out of earshot during guitar instrumentals, onstage and on-instrument living creatures with varying numbers of legs, belligerent drunken bowling alley lounge customer demanding that funk band play Debussy's Clair de Lune while remainder of band looks expectantly at guitarist, drummer watching ball game on portable TV with headphones throughout performance, guest singer repeatedly changing keys at random moments, realization that the people who have just boldly picked up instruments and are unexpectedly sitting in are Herbie Hancock and Wah Wah Watson, guns drawn at rehearsals to settle disputes about form of song, marginally famous singer resorting to the dreaded "Do you know who I am" line, drummer and delusional would-be front man jumping off the drums in the middle of a song and mistakenly chanting "we don't need no drummer to keep that funky beat" to a dance floor packed with suddenly hostile former dancers, unstable band member deciding that it is his responsibility to educate the audience over the microphone, bass player playing random notes and rhythms because he is not a bass player at all but nonetheless booked the gig, drummer announcing that he killed somebody just before the show, swimming pool party turning into orgy with splashing on inexperienced solo electric guitarist sitting beside pool doing his first solo gig and fielding endless requests for the same song he had just played yet again, bride's and groom's special song evaporating from mortified solo musician's mind at the crucial moment, band member disappearing suddenly when his chair falls backwards off riser, unstable enormous man peaking on LSD brandishing artificial limb removed from his companion at audience and threatening band to "sing with this", mirrors on back wall of club causing introspective young guitarist to question meaning of his life at early stage in career."
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I have played Benson picking with a fender medium pick for years, but currently i am using a D andrea Pro Plec 1.5 (like Adam Rogers does). Some part of your picking technique gets different of course to accommodate for the pick flex (or lack of), but the biggest difference is the sound. I love the sound of the Pro Plec and that's why i use it. But each one has its pros and cons, so you have to try both for some time, that's the only way to know what you prefer. I would start with the fender medium.
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I used to benson pick (or at least played underhand) and loved it but in the end there were issues that I didn’t want to deal with - mostly muting but also the difficulty of using hybrid picking.
I used a thick pick but I was going for more of an Adam Rogers thing
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it's probably a very good sign that you haven't heard these terms - though you probably want to check out Dan Wilson if you dig George Benson (look up 'Dan Wilson - if I should lose you' for example) Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
what i can't resist saying is that, some time ago now, we (on this very site) had like the biggest thread ever in the history of threads - on 'benson picking'....it helped me convert my normal hanging in mid air the right way round picking method into the thing some people call 'benson picking'. we tried to go into every possible detail about the method on this thread - but it's pretty elusive. Adopting this right hand approach has transformed my whole vibe with the guitar as well as my playing - so i'm one of those zealous converts i suppose.
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i've been using dunlop jazz iii style picks forever now. i tried fender medium style picks when i was learning 'up-side down' picking - but i abandoned them because I could not reconcile myself to the brighter zingier sound they make over thick jazz iii style picks.
then i got this tip about holding the pick really close to the tip
i got a still fatter sound and more control and facility instantly. which was nice....
but this allowed me to go back to the fender medium style pick because it means you can darken - thicken - the sound of these picks by holding them firmly near their tips.
holy cow. so to speak. sometimes one at least seems to get something - even quite a lot - for nothing. (it's easy to under value what you get for nothing...)
these picks are 'quicker' because they produce a much brighter more forcefully defined sound and are less stressful to hold - so they're both more 'articulate' and easier to use.
it does make the whole guitar brighter and punchier and less bassy - but the pay-off is very significant. i think i'll be using fender medium style picks - and damping them by holding them near the tip - for the foreseeable.
thanks again!
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You may have seen this statement from Tuck Andress about picks: Originally Posted by Groyniad
1.2.10 The best pick to use: During all the years I spent studying picking I tried many picks, finally settling on an extremely thick one which I had to cut down and reshape to a small teardrop. I felt that this brought me closest to the Benson sound. Each pick took several hours of work. Then one day I learned that George Benson used a Fender medium. At that point I quit worrying about what type of pick I used.
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Love this - thank you! Originally Posted by Mick-7
Funny that Tuck would make such an intense study of plectrum technique only to give it up and go to fingerstyle playing, but apparently he's like that, goes all in on whatever he studies.
This part of his treatise is amusing and probably in the running for the longest run on sentence ever written
"Here are some examples of realities I have personally encountered which were not sufficiently addressed by this style of preparation:
Borrowed guitar, different string spacing, bridge or nut sliding during string bending or vibrato, wrong strap length or strap breaking during solo, unwound guitar string used as backup strap gradually cutting through shirt and shoulder, sleeve snagging on bridge suddenly locking up hand, wrong pick, dropped pick, broken pick, no pick, pick stuck between strings, finger caught between strings, wrong strings, dead strings, sticky strings, blood on strings, broken strings, no extra strings, jar of honey spilled all over strings, vintage L-5's gig bag shoulder strap breaking immediately before album release concert for 5,000 people causing guitar to fall on concrete and creating crack from tailpiece to neck which gradually splits apart during performance with action getting higher and higher, amp too far away, amp too close, amp broken so play through bass amp or P.A., tone all wrong, overdrive bypass switch broken, cymbal in ear, band too loud, audience too loud, band downstairs too loud, bad monitors, no monitors, in-ear monitors broken so Patti is heard acoustically but Tuck is heard only through house PA 50 yards away resulting in Tuck being unavoidably out of sync with Patti by 1/6 second for whole show, guitar buzz, RF from nearby transmitter louder than the music itself, brownouts making organ pitch fluctuate randomly over an octave range, power outage, equipment plugged into 230 volts immediately before show, earthquake during show in high-rise, outdoor desert performance at 131 degrees with sand-blasting winds, sub-freezing outdoor mountaintop performance with snow storms and 40 mph winds, high altitude dizziness, no sleep, no food, too much food, wrong food, food poisoning, fever, locked bathrooms, way too many liquids before long show, nagging suspicion that zipper is down, contact lens falling out during moment of peak concentration, compromised hand position due to repeatedly sliding full width of stage while trying to keep playing but not collide with Patti on yacht in rough Finnish Gulf of Bothnia, charts blown away by wind, charts on thermal fax paper, charts in wrong key, charts without bar lines, charts with bar lines all displaced by two beats, charts in bass clef or C clef, chord charts with do/re/mi instead of C/D/E and everything else in Portuguese, realization that Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie, Joe Pass, George Benson, Chaka Khan, Bobby McFerrin or Steve Gadd just walked in, drunks falling on stage, drunks disrobing on stage, drunks grabbing instruments or band members, band members falling asleep during song, pigs frolicking in sawdust-covered frat house knocking over band equipment, thinly veiled animosity between bride's and groom's families erupting into violence during heartfelt version of My Romance, nightly juggling of playing and operating the lighting console/footswitches and talking to audience members and trying to reign in tempos and egos of various fellow top-40 band members, arrival at duo gig with unbelievably loud, aggressive fuzz-wah hard rock bass player to discover that assignment is to back up elderly white-haired and white-suited gentleman singing unfamiliar country songs to unforgiving patrons, crowded upscale happy hour dance floor unraveling into pandemonium as normal-looking customers all collapse to the floor and writhe around on each other while astonished saxophone-playing duo partner walks out leaving helpless solo guitarist playing The Hustle for 25 minutes, funk bass player imprisoned in lounge band insisting on popping strings throughout sensitive ballads, accidental imprisonment of Patti in wine cellar out of earshot during guitar instrumentals, onstage and on-instrument living creatures with varying numbers of legs, belligerent drunken bowling alley lounge customer demanding that funk band play Debussy's Clair de Lune while remainder of band looks expectantly at guitarist, drummer watching ball game on portable TV with headphones throughout performance, guest singer repeatedly changing keys at random moments, realization that the people who have just boldly picked up instruments and are unexpectedly sitting in are Herbie Hancock and Wah Wah Watson, guns drawn at rehearsals to settle disputes about form of song, marginally famous singer resorting to the dreaded "Do you know who I am" line, drummer and delusional would-be front man jumping off the drums in the middle of a song and mistakenly chanting "we don't need no drummer to keep that funky beat" to a dance floor packed with suddenly hostile former dancers, unstable band member deciding that it is his responsibility to educate the audience over the microphone, bass player playing random notes and rhythms because he is not a bass player at all but nonetheless booked the gig, drummer announcing that he killed somebody just before the show, swimming pool party turning into orgy with splashing on inexperienced solo electric guitarist sitting beside pool doing his first solo gig and fielding endless requests for the same song he had just played yet again, bride's and groom's special song evaporating from mortified solo musician's mind at the crucial moment, band member disappearing suddenly when his chair falls backwards off riser, unstable enormous man peaking on LSD brandishing artificial limb removed from his companion at audience and threatening band to "sing with this", mirrors on back wall of club causing introspective young guitarist to question meaning of his life at early stage in career."
Re. the question: I only pick that way when playing a guitar with a relatively small body (Ibanez GB size) and flat wounds, but I've ended up using an upside-down Fender Heavy.
Best to all.
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Amazing, isn't it? Originally Posted by Groyniad
You might try this, too...
If you imagine the edge around the pick as a baseball infield (with the pointy spot as home base), hold the pick ON the third base line (the edge).
What that does is allow some rotation around the longitudinal axis of the pick (meaning the pick may naturally deflect as "relative pick tilting", independent of pick slanting, variable with hold firmness.
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