Video on Rest Stroke picking and beyond

[Christian Miller]

Video on how to work on Rest-Stroke picking and how I've adapted it to allow for Crosspicking, Two Way Sweep and Alternate Picking too.

[djg]

check out reg schwager for a weird down-stroke based technique. it shouldnt work but it does somehow.

[Christian Miller]

check out reg schwager for a weird down-stroke based technique. it shouldnt work but it does somehow.

Good god

Great player but I don't think I could look at him haha.

[pamosmusic]

[Hep To The Jive]

Cool video! Yea there's no reason to associate rest stroke with just Gypsy jazz style, it's pretty versatile. There's a guitar player, the name I don't quite remember, Moby? Marby? (he plays in a fusion funk band but doubles as a GJ player also) did a video he showed two types of restroke, something like full rest stroke and half rest stroke.... It actually made sense, but I've never seen anyone else talking about it. The way he demonstrated that half rest stroke I think that's what the most guitar players use even if without realizing it.

[Christian Miller]

Cool video! Yea there's no reason to associate rest stroke with just Gypsy jazz style, it's pretty versatile. There's a guitar player, the name I don't quite remember, Moby? Marby? (he plays in a fusion funk band but doubles as a GJ player also) did a video he showed two types of restroke, something like full rest stroke and half rest stroke.... It actually made sense, but I've never seen anyone else talking about it. The way he demonstrated that half rest stroke I think that's what the most guitar players use even if without realizing it.

Marbin?


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[Hep To The Jive]

Marbin? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's it! Marbin.

[Stringswinger]

Excellent video Christian!

I have also had to relearn picking. Back in the 70's both Studio/Jazz guitarists (Allen Hanlon and Milt Norman) that I studied with had me use alternate picking with an anchored right hand. Then a bit over 20 years ago when I got into Gypsy jazz (with an emphasis on playing an acoustic guitar), Michael Horowitz suggested that I try rest stroke picking. I bought his book and studied that style and floated my right hand. When I played a couple of concerts with Larry Coryell in 2007, I noticed that Larry used rest stroke picking, which made sense, seeing as he played a LOT of acoustic guitar over the years (and Larry was in fact, using a Ken Parker acoustic guitar for the shows he played with me). Also back in the 70's, I studied with a Classical guitar master who taught me to use rest stroke classical style finger picking. These days, I use strict rest stroke picking when playing acoustic guitars, but when playing electric guitar, I use a bit of a hybrid style, mixing both alternate picking and rest stroke style with a (sometimes) anchored right hand.

I think in the end, each player needs to find out what works for them. My friends John Jorgensen and Robin Nolan both do a wonderful job of playing Gypsy jazz guitar without using rest stroke picking. Different strokes for different folks.

[rpjazzguitar]

check out reg schwager for a weird down-stroke based technique. it shouldnt work but it does somehow.

When I heard and saw him up close years ago, I don't recall him using that technique. Looked more typical and sounded very fluid.

[Hep To The Jive]

Thing is rest stroke is not synonimous with Gypsy picking imo. I mean it's a huge part of Gypsy style, but it's much broader than that. It can be adopted for alternate picking or anything as this video demosntrate. Downward slanting is the most important thing to me. That's how I try to teach too. I've never subscribed to always downpick rule of GJ. Doesn't work for me anyway. There is consensus that all early jazz guys like Charlie Christian use only downpick. I'm not convinced.

Right now I have to work on some trad jazz tunes for a gig, there's a tune Hotter That That, featuring Lonnie Johnson on guitar playing jazz y blusey licks all over. It's sounds like alternate picking to me all the way, and it's 1927!

[Christian Miller]

Excellent video Christian!

I have also had to relearn picking. Back in the 70's both Studio/Jazz guitarists (Allen Hanlon and Milt Norman) that I studied with had me use alternate picking with an anchored right hand. Then a bit over 20 years ago when I got into Gypsy jazz (with an emphasis on playing an acoustic guitar), Michael Horowitz suggested that I try rest stroke picking. I bought his book and studied that style and floated my right hand. When I played a couple of concerts with Larry Coryell in 2007, I noticed that Larry used rest stroke picking, which made sense, seeing as he played a LOT of acoustic guitar over the years (and Larry was in fact, using a Ken Parker acoustic guitar for the shows he played with me). Also back in the 70's, I studied with a Classical guitar master who taught me to use rest stroke classical style finger picking. These days, I use strict rest stroke picking when playing acoustic guitars, but when playing electric guitar, I use a bit of a hybrid style, mixing both alternate picking and rest stroke style with a (sometimes) anchored right hand.

I think in the end, each player needs to find out what works for them. My friends John Jorgensen and Robin Nolan both do a wonderful job of playing Gypsy jazz guitar without using rest stroke picking. Different strokes for different folks.

Thanks!

Interesting info regarding Larry, probably part of the reason for his massive tone. Hendrix also used it IIRC

Gary Potter and Sebastian Giniaux also use a different technique for GJ


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[Christian Miller]

Thing is rest stroke is not synonimous with Gypsy picking imo. I mean it's a huge part of Gypsy style, but it's much broader than that. It can be adopted for alternate picking or anything as this video demosntrate. Downward slanting is the most important thing to me. That's how I try to teach too. I've never subscribed to always downpick rule of GJ. Doesn't work for me anyway. There is consensus that all early jazz guys like Charlie Christian use only downpick. I'm not convinced.

Right now I have to work on some trad jazz tunes for a gig, there's a tune Hotter That That, featuring Lonnie Johnson on guitar playing jazz y blusey licks all over. It's sounds like alternate picking to me all the way, and it's 1927!

Yeah, I feel if you teach the downstroke (and upstroke) right everything comes from there. It’s not that you are forbidden to use upstrokes on a new string, it’s more that it’s actually kind of hard to do it with your hand in that position.

I also doubt Charlie was 100% downstroke.

I think a lot of rest stroke picking was developed independently naturally from players just trying to get more sound out of the guitar. Although there’s a story Django learned it from a classical Banjo teacher iirc? I have trouble tracking down the evidence for that one though.


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[GuyBoden]

Gary Potter and Sebastian Giniaux also use a different technique for GJ

Good to see 'Gary Potter' getting a mention. I saw him first at the Atlantic pub on the docks in Liverpool, when he was an incredibly talented teenager. We were amazed.

[Hep To The Jive]

Yeah, I feel if you teach the downstroke (and upstroke) right everything comes from there. It’s not that you are forbidden to use upstrokes on a new string, it’s more that it’s actually kind of hard to do it with your hand in that position.

I also doubt Charlie was 100% downstroke.

I think a lot of rest stroke picking was developed independently naturally from players just trying to get more sound out of the guitar. Although there’s a story Django learned it from a classical Banjo teacher iirc? I have trouble tracking down the evidence for that one though.


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I'm ok with upstrokes, I don't know maybe I'm just used to it, I've never codified the way I'm playing. It's the left hand driven anyway, the right hand just follows. Also I'm mostly playing solidbody electric, so I'm definetely an electric guitar player the way I hold the pick and wrist position on the bridge and all that. If I play acoustic I adjust, but not by much, not GJ proper for sure. But the downward slanting is essential I think, it's just instinct.

[Christian Miller]

I'm ok with upstrokes, I don't know maybe I'm just used to it, I've never codified the way I'm playing. It's the left hand driven anyway, the right hand just follows. Also I'm mostly playing solidbody electric, so I'm definetely an electric guitar player the way I hold the pick and wrist position on the bridge and all that. If I play acoustic I adjust, but not by much, not GJ proper for sure. But the downward slanting is essential I think, it's just instinct.

Yeah I mean it's not a conscious thing for me any more. I tend to use more of an electric/muting technique these days anyway, specially on the 335, and I notice watching myself on a recent video that I actually alternate pick quite a bit these days. It's not something I'd worked on - it comes from the feel I think, and the way I've been working with the metronome. I think the no upstrokes on a new string thing is enforced by an acoustic style floating wrist angle. But you still catch even Manouche players cheating in the odd upstroke at speed.

As always it's sensible to make a division between what you work on in the practice room and just playing...

[Stringswinger]

Yeah I mean it's not a conscious thing for me any more. I tend to use more of an electric/muting technique these days anyway, specially on the 335, and I notice watching myself on a recent video that I actually alternate pick quite a bit these days. It's not something I'd worked on - it comes from the feel I think, and the way I've been working with the metronome. I think the no upstrokes on a new string thing is enforced by an acoustic style floating wrist angle. But you still catch even Manouche players cheating in the odd upstroke at speed.

As always it's sensible to make a division between what you work on in the practice room and just playing...

I have gigged with or Jammed with a bunch of top Gypsy jazz players and without exception, they all used upstrokes. I find it hard to believe that Charlie Christian used all downstrokes.

[Christian Miller]

I have gigged with or Jammed with a bunch of top Gypsy jazz players and without exception, they all used upstrokes. I find it hard to believe that Charlie Christian used all downstrokes.

Yeah I was talking specifically there about starting a new string on an upstroke, wasn’t clear

I don’t know re CC but I would say his lines are very good fit for the GJ style of picking.


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[charlieparker]

Was watching this video today and reminded me of Larry Baione's video playing through a Leavitt exercise using alternate picking.

He uses what appears to be downward picking rest strokes and has a very pronounced hop when he has to use an upstroke on a new string which I think is what you were describing at the end.

I am actually trying to work through Leavitt, but am struggling to combine rest stroke picking with Leavitt's recommendation to alternate.

Also, it might have worth talking about rhythmic reasons for alternating. As I understand it players like Cecil Alexander will try and avoid upstrokes on string skips by including slurs.

[Christian Miller]

Was watching this video today and reminded me of Larry Baione's video playing through a Leavitt exercise using alternate picking.

He uses what appears to be downward picking rest strokes and has a very pronounced hop when he has to use an upstroke on a new string which I think is what you were describing at the end.

I am actually trying to work through Leavitt, but am struggling to combine rest stroke picking with Leavitt's recommendation to alternate.

Also, it might have worth talking about rhythmic reasons for alternating. As I understand it players like Cecil Alexander will try and avoid upstrokes on string skips by including slurs.

Yeah it might be worth separating out the stance/mechanic of the technique which is what Grady calls USX - identified for example in this video - and the picking directions being used. They are linked but they are not the same thing.

Now there are players you alternate pick using USX including - apparently - Mike Stern (and there are work arounds) but gypsy style picking is very well suited to this mechanic.

FWIW I’m moving over to alternate picking more to address what I regard to be inconsistencies in my articulation. There are some things I need to do to make this happen which I touch on in the video towards the end.

Also - we aren’t shredding. As Troy points out string hopping is not a bad thing at moderate to slow speeds.

As for working on Leavitt - I’m terrible sorry I’m not sure why have seen fit to do this to yourself, but you have my sympathies. Please ensure you also play some music.


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[Christian Miller]

Was watching this video today and reminded me of Larry Baione's video playing through a Leavitt exercise using alternate picking.

He uses what appears to be downward picking rest strokes and has a very pronounced hop when he has to use an upstroke on a new string which I think is what you were describing at the end.

I am actually trying to work through Leavitt, but am struggling to combine rest stroke picking with Leavitt's recommendation to alternate.

Also, it might have worth talking about rhythmic reasons for alternating. As I understand it players like Cecil Alexander will try and avoid upstrokes on string skips by including slurs.

I hate that left hand fingering so much lol


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[charlieparker]

I hate that left hand fingering so much lol


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LOL. I do, too. What are your thoughts on CAGED? I know you aren't big on two octave scales in general but I feel like I struggle to play arpeggios easily and having a fingering system seems like ine way to get these together.

[Christian Miller]

LOL. I do, too. What are your thoughts on CAGED? I know you aren't big on two octave scales in general but I feel like I struggle to play arpeggios easily and having a fingering system seems like ine way to get these together.

Well it just so happens I just did a video on this.