Maj7 Drop 2 Third Finger Barre

[garybaldy]

I struggle with this shape these days, particularly at the cowboy end. X3525x. I call it a 6th. Don't know if it's a 'drop anything'.

[pamosmusic]

I struggle with this shape these days, particularly at the cowboy end. X3525x. I call it a 6th. Don't know if it's a 'drop anything'.

Major 6, drop 2. Root position.

incidentally also Minor 7, drop 2, first inversion.

With four note chords, basically everything is “drop” something. It’s useful for arranging, because you can just choose the spacing you want and the arrangement of pitches kind of takes care of the voiceleading for you.

On a guitar the drop terminology is super useful if the chords are going to be moving a lot because it implies the voiceleading in super straightforward plug and play kind of way. If the objective is nice playable voicings, then the terminology isn’t terribly helpful

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

I struggle with this shape these days, particularly at the cowboy end. X3525x. I call it a 6th. Don't know if it's a 'drop anything'.

I simply play the maj7 resp. rootless min7/9 voicing instead of this most of the time. (I use the voicing you describe mostly to check out voice leading if I ever use it.)

EDIT: I am talking about the maj7 in question in the OP only on string group 2-3-4-5.

[Mick-7]

I'm certainly hoping that it's my technique rather than just my hand anatomy making it more difficult. Perhaps to illustrate a little more (also learning that it's so hard to get the right angles to photograph a technical issue on the guitar...) here's a shot of me playing an F6 which is quite comfortable, vs the Fmaj7 with the barre which feels utterly awful. Two things that jump out at me seeing the pictures side by side is that my elbow comes way out to play the Fmaj7 and also you'll see that my pinky is clear behind the neck! It sort of ends up there because the amount of pressure/tension I feel I need to exert to get the 3rd finger into enough hyperextension to lay flat on the strings and produce a clear sound.

You're bending your wrist when you play the M7 (versus the M6), I do not need to change my wrist/hand position when I shift from one chord to the other, I keep it perpendicular to the fretboard. Try to play the M7 with as little finger pressure as you need to clearly sound the notes, but no more, it should not require a stronger grip than the M6 (nor any appreciable change in your wrist position).

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Major 6, drop 2. Root position.

incidentally also Minor 7, drop 2, first inversion.

With four note chords, basically everything is “drop” something. It’s useful for arranging, because you can just choose the spacing you want and the arrangement of pitches kind of takes care of the voiceleading for you.

On a guitar the drop terminology is super useful if the chords are going to be moving a lot because it implies the voiceleading in super straightforward plug and play kind of way. If the objective is nice playable voicings, then the terminology isn’t terribly helpful

I prefer to characterize those voicing by the top note because the top voice defines the top melody (which is also the main thing a layman will hear).

[pamosmusic]

I prefer to characterize those voicing by the top note because the top voice defines the top melody (which is also the main thing a layman will hear).

Yeah that’s usually the confusion on the terminology. Inversions etc and shapes we usually talk about from the low note, but those drop voicings are defined top-down.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Did you mean to write? - X3535x (F6)

That's a C7.

[pamosmusic]

Did you mean to write? - X3535x (F6)

Nope he got it right. You wrote a C7 here.

You transposed the string set

[Mick-7]

Nope he got it right. You wrote a C7 here.

You transposed the string set

Oh right, wrong set of strings, but easier to play if you leave out the 5th or even root.

x-3-x-2-5-x or x-x-5-2-5-x

[supersoul]

I struggle with this shape these days, particularly at the cowboy end. X3525x. I call it a 6th. Don't know if it's a 'drop anything'.

I absolutely can't play that shape. Instead I'll play x3 2 2 5x. It gets rid of the 5th and doubles the third.

[jazzshrink]

I struggle with this shape these days, particularly at the cowboy end. X3525x. I call it a 6th. Don't know if it's a 'drop anything'.

Me too! I swear this was an easy stretch for me 40 years ago. Too bad, since I really like the sound of this shape. From where I sit, this is a CMaj6 drop 2, root position.

[Mick-7]

I call it a 6th. Don't know if it's a 'drop anything'.

It is indeed a "drop anything," in this case, the "anything" that will drop is the health of your hand ligaments over time if you play it regularly.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

How about barring with the middle finger instead of the ring finger? I can't figure out what going wrong for you.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

FWIW, I come from piano where nobody talks about drop2, 3, or 4. Voicings are just closed, open, or cluster. But there are so few physical limitations to what's playable on the piano that a taxonomy of voicings beyond those terms would be nearly impossible to come up with.

Funny, I've heard plenty of pianists use that terminology. It certainly didn't originate with guitarists.

[pamosmusic]

Funny, I've heard plenty of pianists use that terminology. It certainly didn't originate with guitarists.

Not sure if it originates there, but in jazz it comes from big band arranging, most frequently for the saxophone section. They literally have an octave key, so it makes the idea of spreading voicings by starting with a close-voiced chord and having certain notes drop the octave makes a lot of sense. They also tend to have lots of those flashy harmonized solis.

[rpjazzguitar]

I play xx3555 with the index finger and a third finger barre. That leaves the pinkie free to catch the B at the 7th fret high E string. It makes the chord, more or less, an F^7#11. It's completely comfortable and I haven't ever had to think about it.

If it's really taking an uncomfortable amount of pressure to fret those notes, it might be worth reconsidering the guitar's setup. String gauge, action height, tailpiece design, neck adjustment can all matter.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Question to the OP:

How about this minor 6 resp. rootless dom 7/9 drop 2 voicing? Is that difficult too?

x-x-3-4-4-4 (fingering: x-x-1-3-3-3)

or this dom 7/9/13 resp. min 6/9 resp. maj 7/b5:

x-x-3-4-5-5 (fingering: x-x-1-2-3-3)

or this min 6/9 resp. dom 7/9/13:

x-x-3-4-4-6 (fingering: x-x-1-3-3-4)

[garybaldy]

I absolutely can't play that shape. Instead I'll play x3 2 2 5x. It gets rid of the 5th and doubles the third.

Good idea! Thanks

[garybaldy]

Me too! I swear this was an easy stretch for me 40 years ago. Too bad, since I really like the sound of this shape. From where I sit, this is a CMaj6 drop 2, root position.

Yeah. It wasn't a problem for me at one time. It's only in recent years I realised I can no longer cross my fingers. I guess it's down to my RA, which was diagnosed in the early 80' in my twenties.
This shape is getting really tough now xx2325 (C13b9). My index finger knuckle hurts doing the 2nd fret barre unless I change my wrist position but then the stretch to the 5th fret with the pinky is a challenge.
I don't know how Rich Severson does what he does and he looks like he's got it really bad.

[Mick-7]

I absolutely can't play that shape. Instead I'll play x3 2 2 5x. It gets rid of the 5th and doubles the third.

Good idea! Thanks

There are a few alternatives, it depends on why you chose that C6 voicing. If you want the E on top, you could use the voicing supersoul mentioned,

or: 8-x-7-5-5-x (C6 root doubled)

= [C or G bass, double 3rd or dampen string, open E string]: (3)-(3)-(2)-2-1-0

or: (3)-(3)-(2)-2-3-0 (C6/9)

or: x-3-4-2-5-x (C6b5 / Am6)

or the chord I mentioned before: x-3-x-2-5-x (5th omitted)

If you don't need the E on top, there are more alternatives in that position.

[rpjazzguitar]

x322xx is CEA. You don't miss the 5th so much. You hear C6. You may hear the 5th as an overtone of the root.

It is then quite comfortable to switch to x323xx [EDIT: x324xx thanks to the post below] which is CEB. Cmaj7 and you may hear the missing G, again, as an overtone of the root.

Very easy pair of grips to put some movement into too many beats of Cmaj. You may even be able to use the open B and E.

[pcjazz]

It is then quite comfortable to switch to x323xx which is CEB. Cmaj7 and you may hear the missing G, again, as an overtone of the root.

x323xx is CEBb, C7. CMaj7 is x324xx

[RJVB]

playing it with one finger per string, which also is difficult because it forces a pretty big stretch between the 1st and 2nd fingers as well as a tilt of the hand.

The trick with that would be to place those 3 fingers first, then reach back with the index finger as that is the one with the biggest lateral range. Keep your thumb close to the middle finger so you can use it as a pivot to tilt the hand backwards for enough pressure on that low note, rather than to pinch.
But:

while the neck angle looks OK in that it's pointing upwards sufficiently, it also seems to be pointing away from your left shoulder meaning that you have to extend your arm forwards in the lower positions. That can't help.
And are you certain that ring doesn't handicap you(r playing) in any way?

[rpjazzguitar]

x323xx is CEBb, C7. CMaj7 is x324xx

Thanks for catching that. Quite right.

[dconeill]

... Following your logic, F C E A is neither an inversion nor a drop chord. ...

I have no idea if the following will be useful to anyone. But it's how I understand it, so here goes.

Any rearrangement of the order of pitches from close-spaced root position (e.g., F A C E) in a chord is an inversion.

The traditional (my term) inversions are:
If the root is in the bass, it's a "root position" voicing.
If the 3rd is in the bass, it's a "first inversion".
If the 5th is in the bass, it's a "second inversion".
If the 7th is in the bass, it's a "third inversion".
The order of the pitches above the bass note is not relevant to the inversion name.

So if you start with a close-voiced Fmaj7 chord in root position and apply the "traditional" inversions to it, you get:
root position: F A C E
1st inversion: A C E F
2nd inversion: C E F A
3rd inversion: E F A C

If you apply the drop-2 process (it's a process, not really a result) to the traditional inversions you get:
F A C E => [drop-2] => C F A E
A C E F => [drop-2] => E A C F
C E F A => [drop-2] => F C E A [typo, corrected from "f c e f", caught by supersoul - thanks]
E F A C => [drop-2] => A E F C

If you apply the drop-3 process to the traditional inversions you get:
F A C E => [drop-3] => A F C E
A C E F => [drop-3] => C A E F
C E F A => [drop-3] => E C F A
E F A C => [drop-3] => F E A C

If you apply the drop-2&3 process to the traditional inversions you get:
F A C E => [drop-2&3] => A C F E
A C E F => [drop-2&3] => C E A F
C E F A => [drop-2&3] => E F C A
E F A C => [drop-2&3] => F A E C


If you apply the drop-2&4 process to the traditional inversions you get:
F A C E => [drop-2&4] => F C A E
A C E F => [drop-2&4] => A E C F
C E F A => [drop-2&4] => C F E A
E F A C => [drop-2&4] => E A F C

If you turn the traditional inversions upside-down you get:
F A C E => [upside-down] => E C A F
A C E F => [upside-down] => F E C A
C E F A => [upside-down] => A F E C
E F A C => [upside-down] =>C A F E



These pitch orders (all the pitch orders derived above) are all unique:
A C E F – these six are all 1^st inversions
A C F E
A E C F
A E F C
A F C E
A F E C


C A E F – these six are all 2^nd inversions
C A F E
C E A F
C E F A
C F A E
C F E A


E A C F – these six are all 3^rd inversions
E A F C
E C A F
E C F A
E F A C
E F C A


F A C E – these six are all root position
F A E C
F C A E
F C E A [typo, corrected from "f c e f", caught by supersoul - thanks]
F E A C
F E C A

These 24 pitch orders comprise the complete set of permutations of four pitches taken four at a time for an Fmaj7 chord. There aren’t any others. It’s possible to vary the voicings somewhat by which strings you use to play the pitches, and by how many unplayed strings are interspersed with played strings, but the pitches will be in one of the orders listed above.

Many (not all) of these pitch orders can be played more-or-less easily on the guitar. The voicings derived from drop-2 and drop-3 processes are particularly straightforward to finger on guitar.