The dilemma of Fender guitars

[Bobby Timmons]

The Jazzmaster might cover indie and jazz the best.

If you're looking to save money you can just get an eq and pump up the lows and adjust the mids and highs to taste to get a jazz tone with the single coils.

Or swap in a humbucker, hum sized p90, or mini humbucker in the neck. That'll give you a jazzier sound in the neck and you can still arrange the pickup layout to work for rock.

It doesn't require a new guitar to play jazz. Of course that's always fun. Just thought I'd mention it since you were complaining about the prices.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

So I often see that "Joe Pass playing a Jaguar" picture, but what most people seem to miss about that picture is that it's a Bass VI.

That’s even cooler!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I've never seen a video, only pictures, but he also played a Jazzmaster.

Attachment 104768

But at that point in time, he didn't own a guitar. The Jaguar supposedly belonged to Synanon, and a I guess he borrowed others until he was given the 175 he became associated with.

The Fender belonged to Synanon. I believe he was given the 175 as a birthday gift a year or two later by a local businessman named Mike Peak, who heard him play at a club and thought he deserved a "better" guitar. But to be honest and with all due respect to Wintermoon, I think his tone is decent on the Fender. I have an original pressing of the Pacific Jazz album "Sounds of Synanon" that I bought when it came out in 1962. It's been a continuing source of inspiration and I still listen to it often. I can't find a link to the full album on YouTube, but it's well worth listening to for those who've never heard it. Here's one of my favorite tracks from it. I love his playing on it so much that any plink is lost in the haze of joy that surrounds my head when I listen to it:

I also have his first album as a leader (the 1963 PJ release called "Catch Me"). I don't know what he's playing on it, but the impressionistic cover shot shows him with a Fender and he was still resident at Synanon when he recorded it. I think his tone is decent on this one too - but then again, his playing would make a plastic ukelele sound like an L-5. I'd play a Mattel guitar if it made me sound like that!



Here's a link to the playlist on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...DKpNaJ5P3BsltO

[wintermoon]

All good my friend, certainly can't complain about his playing, it's Joe Pass after all!
And it's not like listening to his sound on those early recordings makes me cringe but I prefer his warmer sound on an archtop. Not sure if he ever recorded on a solid again (though if I had to guess he likely only had the 175 until he got his D'Aquisto)
I guess I'm saying why settle for decent if you have a choice and can have good or great, unless circumstances dictate an archtop just isn't practical for some reason. However, many have gotten a really good sound on a solid since, Ed Bickert comes immediately to mind.
That said one of my favorite records is Groove Holmes first lp as a leader "After Hours" w Joe on whatever solid he was using that day. He's boppin his butt off on that one!
And for the record I prefer Fisher Price guitars to Mattel

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

one of my favorite records is Groove Holmes first lp as a leader "After Hours" w Joe on whatever solid he was using that day. He's boppin his butt off on that one!

Don’t forget Gene Edwards, who played a few tracks on that album. I was never able to learn much about him, but he played on several Gerald Wilson albums as well as for Holmes. I don’t know what he was playing on that album. Although he’s playing an archtop in most of the few pictures I’ve seen of him, he’s also playing what looks like a Fender strat in a few -

[lawson-stone]

All good my friend, certainly can't complain about his playing, it's Joe Pass after all!
And it's not like listening to his sound on those early recordings makes me cringe but I prefer his warmer sound on an archtop. Not sure if he ever recorded on a solid again (though if I had to guess he likely only had the 175 until he got his D'Aquisto)
I guess I'm saying why settle for decent if you have a choice and can have good or great, unless circumstances dictate an archtop just isn't practical for some reason. However, many have gotten a really good sound on a solid since, Ed Bickert comes immediately to mind.
That said one of my favorite records is Groove Holmes first lp as a leader "After Hours" w Joe on whatever solid he was using that day. He's boppin his butt off on that one!
And for the record I prefer Fisher Price guitars to Mattel

Mattel "Tiger" Guitar all the way. My first guitar, and it was an archtop!

[John A.]

All good my friend, certainly can't complain about his playing, it's Joe Pass after all!
And it's not like listening to his sound on those early recordings makes me cringe but I prefer his warmer sound on an archtop. Not sure if he ever recorded on a solid again (though if I had to guess he likely only had the 175 until he got his D'Aquisto)
I guess I'm saying why settle for decent if you have a choice and can have good or great, unless circumstances dictate an archtop just isn't practical for some reason. However, many have gotten a really good sound on a solid since, Ed Bickert comes immediately to mind.
That said one of my favorite records is Groove Holmes first lp as a leader "After Hours" w Joe on whatever solid he was using that day. He's boppin his butt off on that one!
And for the record I prefer Fisher Price guitars to Mattel

For JP, I think it's obvious that the solidbodies were a compromise, but for many they're an affirmative choice, not settling. I don't know whether JP ever did a jazz recording with a solidbody once he got the 175, but the JP20 sounds like the middle position of a strat to me sometimes [ducks]. So who knows ...

[John A.]

The Fender belonged to Synanon. I believe he was given the 175 as a birthday gift a year or two later by a local businessman named Mike Peak, who heard him play at a club and thought he deserved a "better" guitar. But to be honest and with all due respect to Wintermoon, I think his tone is decent on the Fender. I have an original pressing of the Pacific Jazz album "Sounds of Synanon" that I bought when it came out in 1962. It's been a continuing source of inspiration and I still listen to it often. I can't find a link to the full album on YouTube, but it's well worth listening to for those who've never heard it. Here's one of my favorite tracks from it. I love his playing on it so much that any plink is lost in the haze of joy that surrounds my head when I listen to it:

I also have his first album as a leader (the 1963 PJ release called "Catch Me"). I don't know what he's playing on it, but the impressionistic cover shot shows him with a Fender and he was still resident at Synanon when he recorded it. I think his tone is decent on this one too - but then again, his playing would make a plastic ukelele sound like an L-5. I'd play a Mattel guitar if it made me sound like that!



Here's a link to the playlist on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...DKpNaJ5P3BsltO

Catch me sounds like the 175 to me. The precussive (dare I say it) thunk seems evident to my ears.

[wintermoon]

Don’t forget Gene Edwards, who played a few tracks on that album. I was never able to learn much about him, but he played on several Gerald Wilson albums as well as for Holmes. I don’t know what he was playing on that album. Although he’s playing an archtop in most of the few pictures I’ve seen of him, he’s also playing what looks like a Fender strat in a few -

Oh I didn't forget Gene, he was Grooves regular guitarist. Didn't have Joe's chops but super soulful player. I always thought he was using an archtop on that record. Check him out on Grooves live lps like Living Soul and the one from Count Basie's. Not a lot of info on him out there.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Catch me sounds like the 175 to me. The precussive (dare I say it) thunk seems evident to my ears.

IIRC, the 175 was given to him for his birthday in January 1963 and Catch Me is widely described as having been recorded during the summer of ‘63. But I also recall reading that he was still living at Synanon when Catch Me was recorded, and the cover shot is a pic of JP with a Fender, taken over his left shoulder from behind. So we may never know the true facts.

Here’s an older thread about this on JGO, with posts from some familiar names

[wintermoon]

Here’s an older thread about this on JGO, with posts from some familiar names

oh no, not that plinky guy again!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

oh no, not that plinky guy again!

[Stringswinger]

I played a solo jazz guitar gig yesterday using my hard tail Stratocaster. I am now using a wireless transmitter instead of a cord. I stepped into the audience area for a sound check and can report that there was nothing "plinky" about my sound (Disclaimer: I am using 4th generation Fender vintage noiseless pickups, which are essentially humbuckers).

I have no dilemma when it comes to playing jazz on any of my three Strats. Leo hit it out of the ballpark when he created the Strat. It is the world's most popular electric guitar for good reason. Here is a picture from yesterday's gig:

[John A.]

I just listened to all of Catch Me! and I’m revising my opinion. I think some of it is the 175 and some is the Jaguar. Whenever the subject comes up I can’t help wondering about what he sounded like pre-Synnanon and pondering arc of his life. There’s a movie begging to be made there.