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Originally Posted by jzuckerOriginally Posted by jzucker
- This thread was titled and predicated on the guitar in question's being a hand carved archtop - but it's not.
- The total of $3300 and $2000 is $5300. A Bambino Elite costs $15k.
There's a $9,700 gap between the cost of this laminated guitar when restored to health by Benedetto and the cost of a new Bambino Elite (a hand carved solid wood instrument). I think it would help such discussions in general and this one in particular for us all to pursue accuracy and eschew hyperbolic exaggeration. My first post in this thread said that I thought all Bambinos are laminated, and I checked on the Benedetto site to be certain I was correct. I was. All Bambinos are laminated - the carved model is the Bambino Elite, a different instrument in a different price class (and one that I did not know existed). A Bambino Elite is to a Bambino as an L4CES is to a 175D.
Apart from the fact that I value accuracy, the main reason I'm concerned is simple - if these errors are included in the PayPal complaint or any other attempts to resolve the problem with return of the money and the guitar to buyer and seller, they will make it harder to succeed.
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01-17-2022 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
And the "carved" aspect of it was my mistake. I didn't realize it was a laminated guitar when I first posted this thread. A bambino is $5000, the total cost of this guitar plus the repairs exceeds that.
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This is more naivete on my part but the more I look back on this, the more I think he's just trying to pull one over on me. Notice that he answers my question without actually saying anything definitive. I think he was nuancing his answers to try to avoid disclosure.
But personally, i think my question and his answer - when contrasted with Benedetto's comments - clarifies the entire situation. Not to say that paypal or chase will do the right thing but I think it all boils down to this...
Last edited by jzucker; 01-17-2022 at 07:08 PM.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
Buying guitars over the last 54 years, I have learned that one man's "excellent condition" is another man's "fair condition". This is a case where the seller and buyer did not see eye to eye. A return should be allowed as legally, the buyer is in the right. But exercising one's legal rights are usually more expensive than the purchase price of almost any guitar.
@JZ, I have way more faith in AMEX than Chase (I bank with Chase and would not rely on them for a credit card guarantee)
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Originally Posted by jzucker
Be of good cheer and enjoy this song. I'm sure the Gershwins wrote it to describe how great we feel with a fine guitar in our hands, a wee dram of Scotch in the glass, and people who care about us. Here's to the good stuff in life and to hell with the rest -
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Fellas. This is why if you purchase an instrument online you MUST purchase with an Amex card if you purchase through PayPal. Then call Amex first, and not PayPal. Amex will fight with PayPal and also reimburse you first. PayPal doesn’t always honor a buyers complaint.
Not your fault Jack, but now you know how to handle this. Never call PayPal first, but instead your CC company and preferably Amex.
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Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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Originally Posted by jzucker
Last edited by wzpgsr; 01-17-2022 at 07:55 PM.
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Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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Originally Posted by jzucker
"If it sounds too good to be true . . ."
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Originally Posted by Sam Sherry
But then the seller emailed me saying I needed to ship the guitar back to him since I had the guitar and the money. Chase said that legally I could keep it and I told him that. BUT...I told him if he sent me a pre-paid label I would ship the guitar back to him. He couldn't seem to understand basic logic however (a common problem in american society) and kept insisting that I needed to send it back at my expense. I explained to him a half dozen times that he refused receipt of it and that I had already paid to ship it to him once and I wasn't going to pay AGAIN to ship it to him.
I finally got a prepaid label and shipped it to him. Never heard back from him again (luckily).
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Paypal ruled in my favor. Full refund, have to ship it back at my expense but glad to be rid of the headache of this whole ordeal...
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Good Jack. Glad things are settling out on this. But, there are plenty of us wanting to know who treated you this way. Cheers!
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Good News..
Originally Posted by jzucker
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Originally Posted by jzucker
AND, thanks for telling everyone how it worked with returning the guitar, calling CC company etc. That is, potentially, very useful information. A public service.
Your story is a proper warning. Buy from reputable and well-known shops (source etc).
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Originally Posted by PDeville
Anyway, happy this was resolved Jack. It's unfortunate that even the simplest thing of being decent to one another evaded the seller.Last edited by JSanta; 01-18-2022 at 02:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by JSanta
In another case, a well known dealer took my money (i had to pay using paypal friends and family) and then they pulled the old trick of printing a label without actually shipping it and it took a couple weeks before it actually shipped. When I got it, it had almost no frets left (they claimed plenty of life left).
And, I'm still waiting for Lovies to call me back from 3 emails and 3 voicemails I left them in december about a 175 they had.
I think we're in a new age where the dealers are struggling to hold on for dear life and what you end up with is just as much hit or miss as buying from ebay or reverb. The only consolation with a known dealer is that they may have a documented return policy *AND* they won't want to risk losing their CC processing status...
Folks always advice people to buy from brick and mortar stores where you can try something out but friends of mine in NYC say that the days of walking into a guitar shop there and seeing a wall full of vintage gibsons is long gone. Even Gruhn guitars only has 2 gibson archtops in stock. I remember the days of them having 15-20 vintage archtops!
Gruhn is one dealer that I would say you can buy from with utmost confidence - HOWEVER, even that is a sample count of 1 deal. And that's the problem with the human psyche. We tend to frame things in the context of our own experiences. We give credence to anecdotal references to things without considering the larger part of the data picture.
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So where the hell have all the archtops gone? If there are fewer and fewer people playing jazz, and those instruments are mostly not suitable for rock 'n' roll, etc., Who is stockpiling them? There are thousands of them out there, probably tens of thousands. And yet nobody seems to have any for sale; ironically, the rarer vintage guitars seem to be more plentiful than the more plebian tapes. If you want a 1930s Epiphone archtop, it seems to be easier to find one of those than a 1975 ES 175.
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Originally Posted by Cunamara
Reverb has the advantage to the seller that it is painful to return something and doesn't have the risk of the item getting damaged while it's sitting in a shop and poorly cared for.
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A simpler answer is guitar hoarding, something that I admittedly engage in myself.
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Guitars-n-jazz has 400 archtops in stock or so they say. I'm guessing that most of them are peerless and eastman. And that's another thing that's happened to the archtop market.
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so, this is weird. I shipped the guitar back and responded to paypal's request to send return-tracking info. Then yesterday evening I get a message from paypal saying I needed to get a repair estimate and then a second message from them saying I needed to respond with a tracking number.
I'm also a bit concerned that the seller may have one more "play" in mind. Either he refuses shipment of the item or claims there was shipping damage returning it to him. I won't be "settled" until I get the actual refund.
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I spent 30 minutes on the phone with paypal resolution support. They now tell me that i don't need to provide any additional documentation and that there was a mixup on their end regarding the case resolution which is why it sent me the additional 2 questions after I had already provided the tracking number. However, one fly in the ointment is that they told me that once the tracking number shows that the item was delivered, the case will go back to the dispute resolution team for evaluation. I assume this is moreorless a rubber stamp but they are so horribly disorganized that I'm a little paranoid. Additionally, as I mentioned above, the seller could refuse receipt of the item or try to make some other claim.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
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Originally Posted by John A.
16" 1920s/30s L5
Today, 08:44 PM in For Sale